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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#121

Post by Blahah »

mitjak wrote: post #105
Blahah wrote: post #42

I am open to discussing this in raw detail - contact in my profile. Most programmers, scientists, people in finance and startups I know take a lot of stimulants. I take a lot of stimulants. [Edit - as others have pointed out, there's a strong selection bias going on here. I actively seek out people who I know take stimulants, and we naturally congregate socially based on a bunch of subtle and explicit cues that signa…

This is, subjectively, absolutely insane to me. In your experience do people have an easy time going off these substances?

Haha, well, I can only assure you that it's basically just fine. Nobody gets hurt. It's just a thing people do - like drinking coffee or energy drinks. But it works better.

In the case of amphetamine-related stimulants (ritalin, adderall, dexedrine, speed), it's easy to come off them if you aren't abusing them for pleasure as opposed to work. There's a level of use that enables effective work, and then another much higher level that makes you feel 'high' all the time. If you get high every day, you might well get addicted. But I've never seen it - I even abused my ritalin pretty heavily for pleasure for months and then stopped cold turkey (by accident), and it was just fine. I was mentally the same as I was before the ritalin, and no side effects that suggested physical addiction. I wouldn't recommend it though, it might affect different people differently.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#122

Post by js2 »

Eilene wrote: post #57
nathan_long wrote: post #34

Glad you're looking into this. As a counterpoint: I've been a developer 10 years. I've worked at a few established businesses, two startups (one U.S. based and one German), and two consultancies. I worked in-person in Charlotte, N.C. and remotely since then. I've never worked in Silicon Valley. One employer had a "play hard" culture, encouraging alcohol (ab)use outside of work. I didn't stay there long. Perhaps I've…

Yes absolutely understand that. And I'm coming at this as someone trying to learn what the situation is--I don't have a preconceived notion of stimulant or amphetamine use as being pervasive. That's why I'm here--to learn. Thanks.

I'd like to echo nathan_long's sentiments.

I worked for a small startup in Atlanta from 97-2000, then another startup in Silicon Valley from 2000-2004 (yay dotcom boom -- I slept under my desk more than once). I relocated to NC in 2004 and continued to work for that company (from its newly acquired NC office) till it was acquired by HP. I remained at HP a couple years. In 2009, I joined another SV startup (my third I guess) and worked from home for that startup till it was acquired by Yahoo in 2013. I've been at Yahoo, now Oath/Verizon since.

In all that time post-college, I've never used any form of drugs (besides occasional alcohol either outside of work or at a company party, beer bash Friday, etc), never felt any pressure to do so, and I've not been aware of drug use by colleagues with the exception of one person, but even that was hearsay to me.

Some of the stories I read about SV, I wonder how I could be missing so much (see for example, "The Nudist on the Late Shift").

That said, I tend to keep to myself. For me, work is work, and play is play, and I'd rather not cross the lines.

46 y/o, highly compensated software developer, married, father of two, used marijuana recreationally in college (I have a funny federal security clearance story about that...), never used any other drugs besides one not so good evening with LSD. Long distance running is how I keep my head straight, besides getting enough sleep and a relatively good diet.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#123

Post by liveoneggs »

stzup7 wrote: post #61
Blahah wrote: post #42

I am open to discussing this in raw detail - contact in my profile. Most programmers, scientists, people in finance and startups I know take a lot of stimulants. I take a lot of stimulants. [Edit - as others have pointed out, there's a strong selection bias going on here. I actively seek out people who I know take stimulants, and we naturally congregate socially based on a bunch of subtle and explicit cues that signa…

I lived in London for a few years to work in finance (top tier banks as well as hedge funds). I haven't met a single person who takes any sort of stimulants besides coffee. I'm a software engineer myself and your world seems very different from mine despite having worked in the same city. Your normality looks completely foreign to me.

drug people find other drug people because drugs

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#124

Post by foldr »

cryoshon wrote: post #100
Blahah wrote: post #42

I am open to discussing this in raw detail - contact in my profile. Most programmers, scientists, people in finance and startups I know take a lot of stimulants. I take a lot of stimulants. [Edit - as others have pointed out, there's a strong selection bias going on here. I actively seek out people who I know take stimulants, and we naturally congregate socially based on a bunch of subtle and explicit cues that signa…

chiming in here to corroborate that stimulant use/abuse is heavily prevalent in scientists and startup types that i know. even the md/phd types who have been in clinical practice for 20 years do it, even after they've had kids etc. most only abuse coffee-- you can tell because the norm is to drink coffee until you're literally red in the face when there is serious work to get done. there are people who abstain, of co…

>most only abuse coffee-- you can tell because the norm is to drink coffee until you're literally red in the face when there is serious work to get done.

That doesn't make sense. Being tweaked on caffeine doesn't make you more productive. It doesn't even make you feel more productive.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#125

Post by bewe42 »

tjansen wrote: post #59

Wow, this discussion is mindblowing. Working in software dev for 20 years, in Germany, and I have never seen any developer taking any stimulants. But maybe this is because only my first job was at a young startup, and I quickly learned that working 24/7 just isn't for me and I need a more stable environment. Today, the way whalesalad and others describe the effect of Adderall sounds interesting to me, but I would nev…

Same here. I have worked in Germany, Spain and London and never seen any drug use. I would have shocked me for sure. I don't see the point or need.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#126

Post by Eilene »

nathan_long wrote: post #34

Glad you're looking into this. As a counterpoint: I've been a developer 10 years. I've worked at a few established businesses, two startups (one U.S. based and one German), and two consultancies. I worked in-person in Charlotte, N.C. and remotely since then. I've never worked in Silicon Valley. One employer had a "play hard" culture, encouraging alcohol (ab)use outside of work. I didn't stay there long. Perhaps I've…

a problem for me, as a reporter, is the lack of statistical evidence of any kind for this. It's very difficult to get an accurate portrayal of the problem based on surveys that would require self-reports. That's why forums like these are helpful in informing my reporting.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#127

Post by pnathan »

A fair bit of marijuana in the Seattle tech scene. No particularly visible ill effects from what I can tell. I have the notion hallucinogens have been used, but no one admits current use (to me). I would expect the more far out tech scene to be more into hallucinogens than anything else.

Cocaine, meth, & opioid use - no idea. Personally, I'd guess opioids are uncommon in tech: foggy heads don't fly. No one I know is admitting cocaine/meth to me.

Of course coffee is extremely common, if it is even worth remarking on. And booze flows very freely.

I don't get invited to exciting parties to meet the really odd people out of a professional setting - I go home to the wife & kid. And I work for a big boring company. So my sample is a little skew.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#128

Post by joshfraser »

Eilene wrote: post #35
kakarot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or better, consider protecting those offering their experiences as well by using an encrypted email provider like protonmail, or offering a GPG key.

I don't know what those are, I'm sorry. I'm not in the industry (software engineering/tech) so am not familiar with those (though I know they exist). Is it something I can do in the next hour?

A good tool for every journalist to have in their tool chest: https://keybase.io

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#129

Post by geofft »

Blahah wrote: post #66
stzup7 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in London for a few years to work in finance (top tier banks as well as hedge funds). I haven't met a single person who takes any sort of stimulants besides coffee. I'm a software engineer myself and your world seems very different from mine despite having worked in the same city. Your normality looks completely foreign to me.

Interesting! That is... really quite surprising to me. I don't know many people anywhere in the world who don't at least recreationally take drugs. I think perhaps we just inhabit different worlds. One thing I can promise you though, is that you do know people who are taking stimulants. They just aren't telling anyone :)

I have to say I agree with 'stzup7. I work in finance in NYC; it's a high-money, high-tech, high-drinking environment. I have coworkers that work too hard. They're not taking anything more than coffee.

I know a couple of people outside of my field who are taking stimulants and talking about it. I know a couple people within my field (and outside) who take drugs solely recreationally, not as a performance booster or a way to get to sleep or anything, and certainly not on a regular let alone daily basis.

And I definitely know enough people within my field closely to know that they're not taking stimulants.

I think you just inhabit a different world, yes. (And I worry whether you inhabit a world of people who think they're productive; a sizable number of the the really productive and skilled people I know tend to be so clean that they don't even drink.)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#130

Post by Eilene »

copper_think wrote: post #82
whalesalad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about that (never seen it myself)... but cocaine is a LOT more prevalent than people realize. There is a funny meme I saw recently that rings true: Two biggest shocks of adult life. 1. everyone does cocaine 2. cheese is fucking expensive

Man, I really wouldn't. My understanding is that of the people who present to the emergency department with chest pain, something like a third of them have been using cocaine. It causes Real Problems. https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drug-relate...

thanks for the link. I need to find updated stats on that. I wonder if the number of those in the ER because of cocaine has risen....
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