Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

news.ycombinator.com

121–130 of 256 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#121
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it works this way and not the other way around as well? Grocery stores shop their data around to see who will pay the most for it. A person who is out of work goes to the local courthouse and requests a bunch of records, compiles them into a spreadsheet and then cold (or warm with something like LinkedIn) calls to see if anyone is interested in the data. An online quiz company is going out of busines…

Good question. I thought it works that way because it takes a lot of work to sanitize and cross-link people's data to other datasets accurately, so even if it's a "push" model, I still can't believe that every single website that does this does their own data cleaning & ML & whatnot. It's far too much repeated work and a good business to just do the work and sell it off to others. So I'd assume a few companies have t…

As mentioned elsewhere, you seem to have a lot of unfounded assumptions, and misconceptions about this sector.

It's far too much repeated work

Companies will repeat work over and over again if it's cheaper than buying it, they have custom needs that aren't filled with the data available, etc. Businesses repeat work all the time, and this is not any different. Additionally, for many businesses in the sector, they themselves are the primary source for data. For them it's not repeated work.

a good business to just do the work and sell it off to others.

Yes, that's why some aggregators exist. They make money by brokering the data from multiple sources, some primary and some resold. But they are the tip of the iceberg.

You seem to be under the impression that there is some small list of companies who are all working from primary sources, and that everyone then gets feeds of data from those companies. This would make sense if gathering data was very difficult, or had a natural resource-like limitations. So that model works well for something like diamond mining (as compared to diamond growing), because the number of diamond mines are limited, and there is a natural entry barrier. However, that doesn't take into account the fact that gathering this data is generally easy. Sometimes it's very easy, such as a sftp feed of data from a government records database. Sometimes it's a bit harder, such as needing to physically be present to obtain the data.

That means there is very little barrier to entry, and thus generally there is going to be a lot of competition, and thus many companies vying to make money.

Personal data has value just like any other commodity. So a bit of economic theory goes a long way to understanding what the boundaries of a market might be. Low production cost, high profit goods generally have a large number of companies in the market.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When e.g. a court needs to control someone's information surely they know who these people are and they can let them know? Is there a secret list in every courthouse or something? The courts don't control information in that way.

That's surprising. So what happens when there is a high profile case and the court fears for the jurors' lives? Or the case itself involves someone whose life will be in danger afterwards? If anybody can find out where these people live then they're toast. The courts have to suppress the information legally somehow, right? If not the old information, at least they need some protection against mining of new informatio…

For very high profile cases, a jury would be sequestered, meaning they are housed somewhere and not allowed to interact with the public. If they were in danger, their would be guards protecting them.

After the trial is over, though, they are on their own. They will not continue to be protected, and could certainly suffer retaliation. It sucks, yes.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/sequester-is...

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#123
post #55

If you have your own domain name with a wildcard, it's really helpful to enter: someservice@mydomain.com as your email. That way if it leaks you'll know who did it and can setup much more robust rules to block. I'll use the domain name as the main address so I remember which name goes to which site. For physical address mailings, you can hyphenate (or use a middle name) as the service. So First Service-Last as the ad…

Even easier is to use john+someservice@doe.com. Works with any e-mail provider, ends up in your normal mailbox. Gmail even adds tags based on what follows the plus. Might not work for some services due to ignorance of the spec or to prevent users doing this.

Doesn't really work since anyone with half a brain would remove the plus sign and after, knowing the email is more useful without that part. I've never caught anyone this way.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#124
post #79
post #55

If you have your own domain name with a wildcard, it's really helpful to enter: someservice@mydomain.com as your email. That way if it leaks you'll know who did it and can setup much more robust rules to block. I'll use the domain name as the main address so I remember which name goes to which site. For physical address mailings, you can hyphenate (or use a middle name) as the service. So First Service-Last as the ad…

I've been doing exactly this for a while. Here is my list of companies that have leaked the email address I gave them to spammers: https://gist.github.com/eligrey/5084991

Note that (I think) Adobe was hacked, so that doesn't mean your email was "leaked" by them per se, not in the sense we mean anyway.

Also, out of curiosity, how long did it take these companies to leak your info, generally? Days, weeks, months, years...?

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can provide all the sources used for the company I used to work for, however that's irrelevant if you as you said wanted to learn how to fish. Any and every company selling data and there are thousands is in fact a source you would need to deal with to be removed from the sites that sell it. If you think this answer isn't specific enough, you're not going to achieve anything by me spoonfeeding you info for one such…

> I can provide all the sources used for the company I used to work for, however that's irrelevant if you as you said wanted to learn how to fish. Personally, I think this should be a requirement of the government: " HERE IS A LIST OF ALL PEOPLE THAT ARE COLECTING AND SELLING YOUR PERSONAL DATA, CLICK THIS BUTTON TO DELETE YOUR RECORDS " sort of thing... it should be a mandated public service of regulation. Then, the…

2 things, 1.)if you make government enforce this, then we are all going to be paying more and things taking longer. This will push the society toward a fascist or communist states where the government is the all powerful and might beast. I do not like this.

2.) in western countries there are already laws that allow you as the consumer to remove any personally identifiable information from being shared. The ownus is on YOU to go do that, it's not hard but will require to track and follow up every year for ever. However you also have a choice of companies that you provide the information to, and what you provide. Any credit agency when you apply for credit asks if you would allow them to resell this. Opt out!

The fact that in most cases people are to lazy to read and understand what they are provinding and for what purpose is the real issue here. Government is not going to make things better or more secure or even be able to enforce this type of governance. Only you and the lawyers can do this.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that all makes sense but seems like it would be more of a grind than a simple JS API. You are effectively creating a marketplace.

Correct - see http://www.crosspixel.net for example: "Cross Pixel's DMP is powered by our proprietary data relationships with more than 5,500 web sites and mobile apps where we identify and harvest the shopping and researching behaviors on over 650 million unique browsers. Our data partners are leading e-Commerce sites, search directories, comparison shopping engines, coupon sites and toolbars across North America an…

Big thanks for the info, that was insightful.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#128

If anyone reading this thread is interested: I would pay non-trivial amounts of money on a regular basis for a service that systematically worked to eliminate records like these (and the sources they draw from), as well as chasing down sources of junk mail and the lists they ultimately draw from. The value would depend on effectiveness, and on the degree to which the service clearly reported exactly what they did. Ca…

Here you go: www.safeshepherd.com

I've been using them since way back when they were on earlibird. It's not perfect, but it has reduced the amount of times I show up in these sites significantly. The only disheartening thing is that most of these operators seem to just dump in batches of data periodically, ignoring any prior requests to remove so it has to be done again (which is fine, that's what you pay their automated search and remove request feature for)

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come across sites like these (SafeShepherd, though it doesn't claim to wipe your information from the "sources", only the sites they see your information on); the problem is I'm not sure I would trust them with something like my driver's license photo. Would you? Or what if they decide to sell your information behind your back later? Edit: Maybe it was a different site that needed your license (I thought it was…

I wouldn't trust them with a driver's license (why would they even need that?), but I'd trust them with name/address/phone/email information, because that's the information that seems far too readily available already.

There was a time (not sure if it's still the case) that the sites that post your info require proof of identity to remove your info

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#130
post #44

If anyone reading this thread is interested: I would pay non-trivial amounts of money on a regular basis for a service that systematically worked to eliminate records like these (and the sources they draw from), as well as chasing down sources of junk mail and the lists they ultimately draw from. The value would depend on effectiveness, and on the degree to which the service clearly reported exactly what they did. Ca…

I've considered working on this problem from a business standpoint, but I couldn't figure out a good business model for it. I don't think too many people will pay a monthly fee to have their information removed from these services. My guess is that they would sign up for a month and after their information has been removed, immediately cancel their subscription until they needed to do it again. And a yearly fee seeme…

What about a better business idea. Accept cryptocurrency to shut down these aggregating and re-selling services. Physically, by any means necessary. ANY.
Post reply on HN