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Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#121

This sounds like a total non sequitur but a simple solution (I've found) is to get some form of hardcore physical exercise! Try lifting some iron, or running on local natural trails. Physical exercise increases mental clarity because it increases neuroplasticity, and releases hormones you can't get from a largely sedentary lifestyle (programming, engineering, brainy-work) like adrenaline, testosterone, epinephrine, e…

What if you tried exercise and it didn't really... do much?

I would ask what exercise was tried, how regularly it was performed, and how long the effort to exercise was maintained.

Not saying that exercise is always the answer, but different people respond differently to different types of exercise. Consistency and regularity are also important.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#122
Been down in the deep depression pit of darkness myself. Your career isn't worth losing your life.

There's lots of good advice in these comments. Don't make any final decisions in your current state of mind. Seriously. Seek help out of the darkness. Finding a therapist who is a good fit may take some doing.

For some great perspectives:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/

http://theancientwisdomproject.com/

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#123

This sounds like a total non sequitur but a simple solution (I've found) is to get some form of hardcore physical exercise! Try lifting some iron, or running on local natural trails. Physical exercise increases mental clarity because it increases neuroplasticity, and releases hormones you can't get from a largely sedentary lifestyle (programming, engineering, brainy-work) like adrenaline, testosterone, epinephrine, e…

What if you tried exercise and it didn't really... do much?

Not quite sure. Maybe look for different ways to break out of your depression? Usually I find that I'm ignoring really important areas in my life, and just squashing it under my anxiety. For me, the biggest ones are exercise, and relationships. Once those things are dialed in, things usually start to run smooth again.

For me, exercise is one of things that's actually in my control, and the return-on-investment can't really be overstated for how well it's worked out for me. It helped me get outta lot of ruts, and get over some deep internal issues I was grappling with. I know it sounds dubious and unscientific, but it's worked for me and I think intellectual folk tend to write this off for whatever reason.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#124
> I don't have the option to stop working for a while. I have the savings for it, but it's unacceptable to my wife.

Don't stop working - if you're not careful it can exacerbate depression and you'll find out in 1 year that you're still just as depressed but now you don't have any savings either.

Find a better job. It doesn't have to be Big-4, but you need to be doing something productive with your time.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#125
post #54

I worked for a "big 4" (Google) for many years, and now I lead the engineering team at a startup. I've interviewed many hundreds of people. And I've "been there" in anxiety about interviewing for something new. Let me make you a deal: call me up and I'll interview you, no "puzzles". Except instead of this being about a job with me, I'll give you feedback from the interview and any advice I can. You can reach me at mi…

This is awesome! I too have been there, feeling unemployable, anxious, etc. That said, I got past it, just as OP will. I'm willing to do the same. Email in profile.

When I pull it up, your profile looks blank.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#126
post #23

First sort out the emotional issues. Please please please seek help ASAP. If you work as an engineer at a Big 4 company, you have no business feeling even remotely inadequate. But know also that you're far from alone in how you feel. I've worked at two of the big 4 and still occasionally feel this way. The problem for people such as myself, a lot of others in the HN community, and perhaps even you is that we have a f…

> If you work as an engineer at a Big 4 company, you have no business feeling even remotely inadequate. I know you meant well by this, but you might want to consider how the wording can be received. Someone feeling vulnerable might perceive this as suggesting that their feelings are invalid, and may respond by retreating from seeking help for fear of judgment.

I can totally see how that may be the case and I agree. Unfortunately I can't edit the original, but hopefully my intention was clear enough in the following sentences - that these feelings do arise but are not warranted on the basis of even a cursory inspection of the facts. We judge ourselves relative to our usual context and environment (which in SV means knowledge work with a lot of super smart people) so it's easy to miss the macro view. But my point in addition to that was that intelligence shouldn't be how we measure ourselves anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go see your doctor. If you have to, have a friend take you. Personally, I called my pastor and he threatened to come pick me up and drive me down there personally (he meant it in a good way). Do whatever it takes to get in there. Get the meds. Take them, if prescribed. They won't fix the problem, but they can help you thru the worst of it until things become a bit easier to deal with. I wound up weaning myself off of…

All great advice. I'm guessing that was some damn hard won wisdom that took years to acquire. Hopefully it will be easier for the OP.

That was three years ago. It ain't over yet. It's better - I'm making some changes to my life that will go a ways toward fixing some of the enabling issues. But it's still a long haul to being free of depression, and I suspect I may never be totally free, just better able to deal with it.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#128

You have classic signs of depression. Perhaps major depression. The worst part of depression is that it clouds normal thought processes. That's probably why you can't perform as you once did. Find a way to see a psychiatrist you feel comfortable around. Go with a family or friend if that helps get you over the hump. So many high achievers I know go through this. You're not alone, and with proper help you'll get throu…

People always say to get help but how specifically do you find a psychiatrist/therapist? Try them at random from yelp/yellow pages?

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#129
Dear OP,

I'd like to share some of my experiences with what you're going through. Bear with me, it might get a little long.

I've been planning to move to SF for since 2 years ago and came here to look for jobs in January 2015. I was hit with a brick when I realised that the interview process is so different to what I have come across.

I have 15 years of website programming as a full stack developer and each time I had an interview in the early stages I would feel useless and inadequate of my skills. I wasn't prepared for all the questions they asked. Overseas it would be asking about my experiences and checking my past work but never puzzles, coding challenges, coding assessments and the likes. I have experienced the full range of coding challenges from your cryptic short ones, matrices, algorithms, data structures and week long real world challenges.

Some of my worst experiences include:

1. a technical interview from a recruitment firm asking me questions about type juggling (http://php.net/manual/en/language.types.type-juggling.php), when I didn't know them asking me 'are you even a programmer?' and then hanging up on me.

2. being cut short at an onsite interview because I didn't know how to whiteboard a solution and them telling me that 'there's no point in continuing the interview'.

3. being treated like shit, given the run around, getting ignored or never getting replies after I did their coding challenges and assessments (seriously it's not that hard to just give a reply if you don't want to continue with the recruitment process). Hey, I took the time to do your coding assessment the least you can do is provide me some professional courtesy.

4. doing a coding challenge with a time limit and the company giving me the run around and finally telling me that they couldn't get the program to run even though I have a live version of it and sent them instructions. They then told me that they would've preferred for me to ask questions rather than take it upon myself to try to solve the problem.

My skill set is quite diverse and isn't just in programming and I normally avoid applying for the 'big 4' because I know that I will never be able to do their coding assessments and challenges. I have failed more interviews that you can think of. I have roughly spent the last 1.5 years trying to get a job here in SF and I have had some of my lowest moments in my professional career.

Being rejected, not knowing how to answer interview coding questions and not being able to whiteboard will hit your confidence hard. I will admit to that. There were lots of times when I questioned myself whether I was a good programmer or not, whether if and when I get a job that I would be able to perform the tasks that were given to me or not.

From some people I have talked to, the interview process has changed dramatically in the US, especially in SF. This wasn't the case a few years back. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I have always thought that the coders in SF and Silicon Valley would be of a higher calibre as this is the mecca of the tech world, just like if you want to be a movie star you would have to go to LA to make it big.

Think of it as your audition, sometimes you pass, sometimes you get a callback but more often than not you fail and won't get a callback. It's just how the game is played. Remember the saying, don't hate the player, hate the game. And these type of interviews aren't going to change anytime soon, so I have learnt to accept it and roll with the punches.

1. Be prepared, but understand that you only know what you know.

2. You can't prepare for every coding challenge (but the ones I have experienced most are matrices, data structures (hash tables, trie, etc), fetch JSON payloads and array/string manipulations.

3. It is just an interview and nothing else.

4. Think of the positive in each failure, what can you learn from it, what you can improve from it and hopefully use it next time.

One thing I have learnt is that just because you don't know how to answer these coding questions does not mean you don't know how to do your job. You have to find a company which is willing to see past that and hope that a company will see you for who you are to the company and not what the company wants you to be.

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As for your mental side. I also suffered from mild depression because of an unrelated issue a while ago.

Please, please, please talk to someone. Your family, friends and support network is the best way for you to get over it. When I had my problems, some of my friends stayed with me for 1 week without leaving my side to make sure I was ok. I had my mum and girlfriend then, now wife fly back to see me and make sure I was ok after just leaving the week before (I was living in Japan at the time and they were in Australia).

There are people out there who can help. Hotlines and the such where people will talk to you and help you out. (I'm not too sure of them in the US, but other comments have got numbers for you).

Your wife will understand the situation, talk to her, make sure she knows how you feel. Don't keep it closed and bottled up. My wife supported me trying to find a job in the US for the last few years. I have been back and forth from US to Australia 4x in the last 1.5 years trying to get a job here in SF and yet she still supports me. Even through arguments, I know she still loves me. Your wife will do the same for you. That's why she is with you right now.

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Good luck.

Please DM me on HN and I can give you my email address or phone number and we can catch up if you're in SF.

PS. I'm still looking for jobs just in case anyone is wondering.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#130
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome! I too have been there, feeling unemployable, anxious, etc. That said, I got past it, just as OP will. I'm willing to do the same. Email in profile.

When I pull it up, your profile looks blank.

Weird! nik DOT harris0 AT gmail.com
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