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Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

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Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#121

Post by up_and_up »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

I am a remote worker and if I ever ran a company I wouldn't allow telecommuting. Here is why: When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an…

> For dynamic workers that move about the company and immerse themselves in lots of projects and want upward mobility, I can't recommend it.

LOL. I work remotely and this is exactly what I do all day long. The problem lies with the companies communication processes. Thats all. If the majority of team communication is centralized in Slack, if documentation is stored in Google docs, if planning meetings are held on skype/google hangouts, if code reviews happen via github what is left? Given many companies use most of these tools already it seems really weird to me that they cling to this "Butt Seat / water cooler Culture" It is so easy to take ownership remotely if the team is remote, just IM the lead or executive and say so. Again, I think that companies the "Allow telecommuting" are to be avoided. "Remote-first" companies are where it is at.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#122

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

I am a remote worker and if I ever ran a company I wouldn't allow telecommuting. Here is why: When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an…

I too worked in the office for ~10 years and have been working from home for about 10 years now. The "upward mobility" point I would agree with but imo that is up to the employee to be (or not) comfortable with that. I've been in the same engineer/architect role for the past 10 years or so and don't have an issue doing that for 10 more years. Also there are ways of reaching out to the execs other than hallway conversations.

As for the large chunk of "insight and productivity coming from informal conversations" - that depends on the company culture and "weight distribution" of the technical and industry knowledge among team members.

I've work remotely for a couple of fortune 50 companies as well as small (like 5 ppl small) startups and the only time this sort of thing was an issue was when I was literally the only remote employee on the team, but my technical/industry strength outweighed the concern so they were almost forced to keep me in the loop to provide insight from my end.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#123

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

doozy wrote: post #103
RestlessMind wrote: post #39

Reasons against remote working: 1. Timezone issues - this is, imo, the biggest one. Especially after working with people in China, India, Europe or even eastern USA (with me in SF bay area). People all over the world usually start working around 9-10, and stop working around 6-7. Meetings, code/design discussions are very difficult on those schedules, especially when you want a decision on smaller issues where a quic…

1. is absolutely true. Real time communication has been crucial to my success as a remote developer. I'm in South America so it's easy for me to work at the same time as coworkers in the US. I worked for a some time for a British company and after a while I just decided to wake up 4 hours earlier so I could communicate with my coworkers. 2. and 3. shows your organization has communication problems. One of my favorite…

#1 would be true if everyone HAD to be in the same timezone. Some companies specifically look for remote employees in different timezones to cover customer communication/support etc. So that's pretty company-specific.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#124

Post by jackmaney »

jarin wrote: post #18
brobinson wrote: post #2

How many decision makers are willing to admit that they are subconsciously using "chair time" as a measure of productivity?

I think it's also probably an issue of trust. If someone isn't in front of you banging on their keyboard you have no assurance that they're actually doing work. The solution is really to use communication tools like Slack and also put the focus on deliverables instead of "work units".

> If someone isn't in front of you banging on their keyboard you have no assurance that they're actually doing work.

If someone is in front of you banging on their keyboard, you need not have any assurance that they're doing work, either.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#125

Post by aurelianito »

eggie wrote: post #20
aurelianito wrote: post #4

It is quite weird that we have all these up-votes (including my own) but no answers. I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect.

> I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect. I'm curious what you think it might be. I would guess here but lack experience to guide my guess.

It is really politically incorrect. I prefer to keep it to myself.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#126

Post by [deleted] »

eggie wrote: post #20
aurelianito wrote: post #4

It is quite weird that we have all these up-votes (including my own) but no answers. I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect.

> I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect. I'm curious what you think it might be. I would guess here but lack experience to guide my guess.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#127

Post by aurelianito »

aylons wrote: post #12
aurelianito wrote: post #4

It is quite weird that we have all these up-votes (including my own) but no answers. I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect.

I'm more prone to believe the answer is dull and not well-defined, on the likes of: - We really don't know how to deal with the differences, and it is scary to try; - There are some company process that we are afraid of changing to accommodate telecommuting; - The risks and costs outweigh the benefits, or the benefits are fuzzy while the risks and costs are clear; - etc

Those are the excuses. I think the actual reasons are much more sad, visceral and disgusting.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#128

Post by [deleted] »

aylons wrote: post #12
aurelianito wrote: post #4

It is quite weird that we have all these up-votes (including my own) but no answers. I think that the real answer might be something quite embarrassing, and politically incorrect.

I'm more prone to believe the answer is dull and not well-defined, on the likes of: - We really don't know how to deal with the differences, and it is scary to try; - There are some company process that we are afraid of changing to accommodate telecommuting; - The risks and costs outweigh the benefits, or the benefits are fuzzy while the risks and costs are clear; - etc

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#129

Post by nickff »

joesmo wrote: post #95

I'd like to know how many people here who refuse to hire remotely are willing and can provide a proper working environment to their engineers: ie-> single, private offices, 4k monitors, adjustable desks chairs, etc. Or are these people forcing people to work onsite in substandard conditions simply so that there can be "spontaneous" conversations, aka pointless distractions like I read in most of the comments?

How can such conditions be 'substandard' if they are the norm, and thus, presumably, 'standard'?

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#130

Post by raverbashing »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

I am a remote worker and if I ever ran a company I wouldn't allow telecommuting. Here is why: When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an…

So even though you are a remote worker you can't see how to run a company without the old "time on seats as productivity" mentality?

Sad, very sad

"informal conversations" move it to Slack (or your preferred communicator). Yes, people will still talk in the watercooler, but that will reflect there.

There is some need for "there time", of course, but not as much as people think

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