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Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
111–120 of 193 posts
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#112One thing you need to come to grips is that regardless of how smart you are, the VP of engineering is probably someone that has a lot more experience and clout than you do. If they aren't, then the senior management of the company is terrible. If your company has grown to the size of 40-50 people, that's the time when they need real experience to help drive them forward. They can't take a chance on a great programmer…
This x1000. The last thing you should do is withdraw, and leave everyone high and dry. I've seen this situation, where the 3 remaining of the original cohort, for some reason, resented the new CTO, and basically abandoned the company. Only reason they're still here is they have an ownsership stake and are friends with CEO. They could've been hugely impactful to the success of the company, but instead, they're sitting…
What is wrong with leaving everyone high and dry? The CEO has no qualms about doing that to devs.
If an engineer leaving puts the company in a bad spot, then they are understaffed and need better management that can foresee and handle those transitions before they happen.
It's all part of proper engineering culture.
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
It took me awhile to realize that management is, generally, not a skilled profession. Not saying that certain skills can make you better or worse at it, but that you don't need them to be effective. In a skilled profession, not having them means all the difference. You can't wire up a house without the skills. You can't build a web app without knowing a whole lot of stuff, at least not within any time frame someone w…
I quibble with your stating that you can be a manager without some critical skills. I think the skills defined under the (now defunct) concept of emotional intelligence are vital to being a successful manger. Without empathic skills you can't get anyone, but the most committed employees to perform well. It seems self-evident, but many people I've met including very poor supervisors lack the ability to really put them…
I'll quibble with this. There are plenty of managers that wield authoritarianism and plenty of subordinates that yield to it.
I'd agree that managers with soft skills perform better, but even the old-school ass-kicking types can still eek out a performance. And even be rewarded by the higher-ups for that attitude.
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#114One thing you need to come to grips is that regardless of how smart you are, the VP of engineering is probably someone that has a lot more experience and clout than you do. If they aren't, then the senior management of the company is terrible. If your company has grown to the size of 40-50 people, that's the time when they need real experience to help drive them forward. They can't take a chance on a great programmer…
This x1000. The last thing you should do is withdraw, and leave everyone high and dry. I've seen this situation, where the 3 remaining of the original cohort, for some reason, resented the new CTO, and basically abandoned the company. Only reason they're still here is they have an ownsership stake and are friends with CEO. They could've been hugely impactful to the success of the company, but instead, they're sitting…
You're suggesting he owes them something, and it really sounds like he doesn't - they've passed him over for career advancement, so he needs to find somewhere he'll be appreciated
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#115As a technical founder I actually face the issue on the other side, which is how to keep those that have been around for 5+ years challenged and motivated. Here are a few things I've learned that might help with perspective: 1. You shouldn't be afraid to ask for what you want. As a founder, it's tough to always know what goes on in everyone's mind. I try as much as I can but when I'm a part of the conversation I will…
It took me awhile to realize that management is, generally, not a skilled profession. Not saying that certain skills can make you better or worse at it, but that you don't need them to be effective. In a skilled profession, not having them means all the difference. You can't wire up a house without the skills. You can't build a web app without knowing a whole lot of stuff, at least not within any time frame someone w…
You are describing bad management. You don't need skills to be a bad anything. There are plenty of bad programmers going around who don't actually have any useful skills either.
There is a particular set of skills involved in not getting fired even though you don't actually have any skills. However, this skillset will not save you if the company institutes blanket layoffs or goes out of business, nor if you ever need to look for a job with no skills. And if you're getting by without any tangible skills or output, chances are everyone else around you is doing the same. This makes the chance of the company going out of business and you needing to find another job quite a bit higher.
YMMV, but I've found it's a significantly less risky strategy to just go learn the skills, practice them, and refuse to work with people who are obviously faking.
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it acceptable for the Founder/CEO to continue leading the company at 40+ employees but not acceptable for the engineer to lead an engineering team at 40+ employees? Seems like a double standard.
> Why is it acceptable for the Founder/CEO to continue leading the company at 40+ employees but not acceptable for the engineer to lead an engineering team at 40+ employees? Seems like a double standard. It is a double standard, but however it's hardly that cut and dry. Post Series B, if the board does not believe the current Founder/CEO can take the company to the next milestones of growth, they will replace them. T…
The board is just a bunch of old white dudes with money. The fuck do they know?
EDIT:
balls187 suggests they know how to make money--which is perhaps true, but not necessarily in your field of endeavor or business, unless you've picked them.
kelnos is closer to it, which is that the board tells you what to do because they're the board and that's the power you've granted them.
Again, in neither case, do we actually need to assume they are making the best or even informed decisions. There are some great stories of boards I've known locally suggesting really dumb things that hurt and even killed companies.
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
As employee #2 he should be talking to (presumably, his friend), the CEO, regardless of who his manager technically is.
Exactly. If he doesn't have an open line with the CEO, then I would leave, assuming I have some percentage of options that had vested. I would stick around long enough to vest, then go start your own thing or be a cofounder of something. I know this situation well. I am employee #1 in a 55 person company and I feel like I might as well be employee 55. But, since I'm remote, I can do my thing, write code, and generall…
> I'm remote, I can do my thing, write code, and generally be left alone while getting paid regularly. So being cut out of the loop does have some advantages, especially if you're remote.
There is the opposite end too. I joined a 100 person company, and some early founding employees were clearly resting and vesting, while I was working nights and weekends to iterate and replace prototype software written by early team members. I was grateful for the company they built, but was curious why they had an entitled approach to their positions.
Software is meritocracy based, not loyalty and tenure.
As employee #1, in what ways do you think you should be treated differently than the other employees?
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#118One thing you need to come to grips is that regardless of how smart you are, the VP of engineering is probably someone that has a lot more experience and clout than you do. If they aren't, then the senior management of the company is terrible. If your company has grown to the size of 40-50 people, that's the time when they need real experience to help drive them forward. They can't take a chance on a great programmer…
Why is it acceptable for the Founder/CEO to continue leading the company at 40+ employees but not acceptable for the engineer to lead an engineering team at 40+ employees? Seems like a double standard.
Not to be snarky or anything but the first thing that pops to mind: "Because it's his company".
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why is it acceptable for the Founder/CEO to continue leading the company at 40+ employees but not acceptable for the engineer to lead an engineering team at 40+ employees? Seems like a double standard. It is a double standard, but however it's hardly that cut and dry. Post Series B, if the board does not believe the current Founder/CEO can take the company to the next milestones of growth, they will replace them. T…
The board is just a bunch of old white dudes with money. The fuck do they know? EDIT: balls187 suggests they know how to make money--which is perhaps true, but not necessarily in your field of endeavor or business, unless you've picked them. kelnos is closer to it, which is that the board tells you what to do because they're the board and that's the power you've granted them. Again, in neither case, do we actually ne…
Assuming you're correct (very debatable), it doesn't matter: they're the ones funding the company, so they get to make the decisions. This doesn't always work out well, but it's not unreasonable.
Re: Ask HN: What's left for early startup engineers as the company grows?
#120Perhaps if you can't advance inside the company it's time to advance outside the company.
They may well consider you as "an engineer with little prior experience, and we only gave him that role because we couldn't afford someone experienced yet". To the next firm, you are an engineer with experience building a company's central product from the ground up and leading a team of 40+ people in a high risk start-up environment.