Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 137 posts

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#111
Schaffer: "... we consider Snaphax to be unlawful circumvention device under ..."

Lackner: Mr. Schaffer, are you a lawyer? Please elaborate on why you consider Snaphax to be unlawful circumvention. I will assess the merits of your argument and then make a decision.

While people in this thread all give the customary knee-jerk "get a lawyer" response, consider that:

1. The request did not come from Snapchat's lawyers, if they have any retained for the purpose of DMCA claims. Surely they must, right?

2. It does not state what happens if Lackner does not comply. There's no threat of legal action. It just asks Lackner to remove the code from Github.

As such, there's no reason not to ask Schaffer to clarify why he thinks there is a problem.

If lawyers are not involved yet, then asking questions is free.

If this was a clear DMCA violation, then why didn't Schaffer send this to Snapchat's lawyers to handle?

Maybe because he might not get the answer he wanted: that it's a clear DMCA violation and an easy win for Snapchat.

Any lawyer can be asked to send a threatening DMCA violation letter. They will almost always say, "Yes, we can do that for you."

But sending a threatening letter does not mean it's a slam dunk win if the recipient does not comply with the demands in the letter. Sometimes threats are hollow. The sender may have no intention of pursuing litigation any further than sending demand letters. It simply might not be worth the money to pursue litigation over something like Snaphax. If this bit of PHP was that big of a deal to Snapchat, why didn't the request to remove it from Github come from Snapchat's lawyers? Where's the line about purusing all legal remedies?

Not to mention that by sending a threatening letter with no details on why the sender thinks the code at issue is a DMCA violation, there's a risk that the recipient might post a link to the code on HN and set off a "Github fork bomb". Ouch.

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#112
I wouldn't recommend going toe to toe with a technology company when there is nothing worthwhile to gain (If there is something worthwhile, then see a lawyer). Morally I think the project should be able to stay up. However, I would avoid the legal system at all costs. The stress isn't worth it.

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#114
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's relevant at all. A "protocol or API" as the GP mentions exists independently of the entity which created it. PadMapper, on the other hand, is actively accessing Craigslist against their service's TOS.

IANAL, but it seems to me like browsers are violating their terms of use, too: Any access to or use of craigslist to design, develop, test, update, operate, modify, maintain, support, market, advertise, distribute or otherwise make available any program, application or service (including, without limitation, any device, technology, product, computer program, mobile device application, website, or mechanical or person…

Right, I'm not saying whether Craigslist is justified here; just that the situations are different.

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#115
This is completely off-topic, but I'm curious. How does one go about "reverse engineering" a protocol like what Snapchat uses? Do you just listen in on the bits that the phone sends (say, with Wireshark) and kind of guess and poke at it to see what each part does?

Edit: after some research (like reading TFRepo), I found some links mentioned that give some info in case anyone else is curious too.

http://adamcaudill.com/2012/06/16/snapchat-api-and-security/

https://github.com/tlack/snaphax#motivation-and-development-...

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#116

This is completely off-topic, but I'm curious. How does one go about "reverse engineering" a protocol like what Snapchat uses? Do you just listen in on the bits that the phone sends (say, with Wireshark) and kind of guess and poke at it to see what each part does? Edit: after some research (like reading TFRepo), I found some links mentioned that give some info in case anyone else is curious too. http://adamcaudill.co…

I suspect packet sniffing to see what is being sent and when.

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#117

It very much depends where you are and what you can afford in legal fees. When you signed up you will have agreed not to do this sort of thing in the terms and conditions - whether that is legally enforceable or not could be expensive to prove either way. Though the worst they can do you for here is breach of contract. With regard to "copyright circumvention": un-rot13 has been classed as an encryption circumvention…

Uhm well ElcomSoft was found not guilty in the end, and the case against Dmitry Sklyarov was dropped, so I don't think you can claim un-rot13 to be classed as an encryption circumvention device...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._ElcomSoft_and_...

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#118
post #100

It very much depends where you are and what you can afford in legal fees. When you signed up you will have agreed not to do this sort of thing in the terms and conditions - whether that is legally enforceable or not could be expensive to prove either way. Though the worst they can do you for here is breach of contract. With regard to "copyright circumvention": un-rot13 has been classed as an encryption circumvention…

un-rot13 is encryption circumvention? Source?

He was probably refering to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._ElcomSoft_and_...

Re: Ask HN: Take down my reverse-engineered Snapchat lib because they asked?

#119
post #5

Ignore 99% of the responses in this thread, particularly any that say "I think...", "It seems fair...", and so on. You're in a legal situation here, if you are worried, contact a lawyer.

I'm writing to ask... we consider.... Assuming the posted letter is complete, a lawyer can't really do anything at this point. The letter (or is it actually an email?) doesn't invoke any requirements one is bound by law to obey. One might even say that it's careful not to do so, so I suspect that even though the "Director of Operations" signed it, it was originally written by a lawyer. This would actually be a useful…

>12 hours to comply with anything looks like amateur hour.

For what it is worth, we were given a few days in a cease and desist letter recently and our $250/hr lawyer laughed at the idea of just a few days notice. 12 hours or even a few days now doesn't seems serious at all.

Post reply on HN