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Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

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Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#111

Post by internet_points »

ngokevin wrote: post #59

As someone who spent 2+ years building one, I would turn away now if you're looking for traction or sustainability ( https://couplingcafe.com ). Though I don't regret it and learned enough to speak to my in-laws. My retention numbers are decent, but I just haven't done the marketing bit yet, and am currently taking a break. Language learning apps are the ultimate sand-pit for solo developers thinking they can offer s…

I think me and my partner have read too many fantasy books to use an app named "Coupling" without chuckling :)

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#112

Post by internet_points »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #70

I’ve been working on a product for a little while that Ivan Illich would call a “convivial tool,” one that doesn’t take from the user but makes them more effective, independent, and creative from its use. I’ve been interested in these kinds of tools for a long time, but I feel some sense of urgency in the LLM era, where I’ve already seen peers lose their edge by offloading the cognitive work. I’ve been interested in…

your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter (non-ironically!)

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#113

Post by throwaway019254 »

internet_points wrote: post #111
ngokevin wrote: post #59

As someone who spent 2+ years building one, I would turn away now if you're looking for traction or sustainability ( https://couplingcafe.com ). Though I don't regret it and learned enough to speak to my in-laws. My retention numbers are decent, but I just haven't done the marketing bit yet, and am currently taking a break. Language learning apps are the ultimate sand-pit for solo developers thinking they can offer s…

I think me and my partner have read too many fantasy books to use an app named "Coupling" without chuckling :)

I don't even know the other meaning of this word.

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#114

Post by dgunay »

ngokevin wrote: post #59

As someone who spent 2+ years building one, I would turn away now if you're looking for traction or sustainability ( https://couplingcafe.com ). Though I don't regret it and learned enough to speak to my in-laws. My retention numbers are decent, but I just haven't done the marketing bit yet, and am currently taking a break. Language learning apps are the ultimate sand-pit for solo developers thinking they can offer s…

I tried your app a while ago and I love the concept. I think the real sticking point for me (and maybe many others) wasn't that it wasn't engaging enough, rather that my partner just didn't want badly enough to learn my heritage language. At that point it was better for me to just go back to grinding Anki and consuming content. Automatically losing two users if one drops off is rough.

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#115

Post by NemoNobody »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #70

I’ve been working on a product for a little while that Ivan Illich would call a “convivial tool,” one that doesn’t take from the user but makes them more effective, independent, and creative from its use. I’ve been interested in these kinds of tools for a long time, but I feel some sense of urgency in the LLM era, where I’ve already seen peers lose their edge by offloading the cognitive work. I’ve been interested in…

"Offloading the cognitive work" - maybe some people become less with AI - think of akin to a calculator.

I'm brilliant.

I do math better with a calculator. So does everyone, my brilliance doesn't change that I am human, a calculator will not forget to carry a one to oversimplify, it is smarter to accurate use a calculator to do math problems... is there something wrong with that?

Why is this different?

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#116

Post by tlb »

NemoNobody wrote: post #115
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #70

I’ve been working on a product for a little while that Ivan Illich would call a “convivial tool,” one that doesn’t take from the user but makes them more effective, independent, and creative from its use. I’ve been interested in these kinds of tools for a long time, but I feel some sense of urgency in the LLM era, where I’ve already seen peers lose their edge by offloading the cognitive work. I’ve been interested in…

"Offloading the cognitive work" - maybe some people become less with AI - think of akin to a calculator. I'm brilliant. I do math better with a calculator. So does everyone, my brilliance doesn't change that I am human, a calculator will not forget to carry a one to oversimplify, it is smarter to accurate use a calculator to do math problems... is there something wrong with that? Why is this different?

It's probably good for young people to learn to do arithmetic by hand. I think you'd lose some important cognitive ability if you never learned arithmetic other than to punch things into a calculator. Not so much because of arithmetic itself, but because you learn how to do careful step-by-step operations, surely an important general cognitive ability.

Once you can do it by hand, by all means use a calculator for speed and accuracy.

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#118

Post by boplicity »

You need to get more specific about your market. General language learning is too broad of a category in order to make informed choices.

Who are your ideal customers -- and how can you serve them best?

"Calm" is not a niche, its a style.

A niche is your position relative to the people you're serving.

Learning apps serve huge varieties of markets, with very different needs. For example, math apps designed to supplement math education in an elementary school environment, versus a language learning app designed for someone traveling to a X country in 3 months...

Your questions should be anchored to very specific audiences that you can actually reach.

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#119

Post by mrwrong »

Uehreka wrote: post #13

Not doing subscriptions for an app that has ongoing server costs is going to bite you, you may want to reconsider that. Your biggest issue is going to be that language learning for adults is largely an unsolved problem. I know people with 1000+ day streaks on Duolingo who are nonetheless not fluent, and from everything I’ve read, it seems clear that spaced-repetition techniques are not sufficient (and possibly not ne…

not unsolved at all. you just need to practice actually using the language instead of playing a video game

Re: Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

#120

Post by veqq »

bollu wrote: post #73
veqq wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a solved problem, Assimil or Michel Thomas (in person) have been making people conversational within a week of dedicated study. Plenty of language learners have reached C2 in 6+ languages including me. But it's not fun and certainly not appable (and these apps never offer anything beyond flashcards)"appable".

how does one get to conversational level in a week? I would love to know!currently anki-flashcarding my way through italian...

Torrent Assimil Italian and... look. Instead of doing 1 lesson per day, just do them 1 after each other. It's literally that easy.
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