Fantastic thread. As a game engine programmer I've gotten a lot of satisfaction designing and executing all aspects of coding. But I have always stood on the shoulders of giants: former lead engine devs at EA and Sony and BBN and countless articles from GDC and Siggraph. The language and platform creators themselves. My innovations live on top of theirs. I don't know if I'd have attained that same feeling starting with AI, but I know AI hasn't replaced the need for good architecture or novel algorithms yet. And it's still bad at breaking down and testing implementations. I use it for all it's good at and try to stay away from what it's not. My recent job satisfaction comes from that combination, to deliver a system in 10 months that should have taken a couple years.
Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
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Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
#112I am a hobbyist woodworker and have been writing software for 25 plus and I love both. But I also love the final product and “shipping” if a CNC machine gets me there faster then I will use it. If AI gets me there faster then I will use it. I still have the option to hand code or hand cut a piece of wood and once in a while I do.
For the new generation, I am not sure how it will pan out for them.
I am really enjoying building with AI eand seeing the app I am building taking shape in hours not weeks.
Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no idea where this romanticism of software development comes from. I’ve been in the field professionally for 30 years across 10 jobs - everything from startups, to boring old enterprise companies, to small to midsize “lifestyle companies” and BigTech. Most people see the job as a vocation to make money and not a passion. Scott Hanselman talked about “Dark Matter Developers” in 2012. https://www.hanselman.com/b…
the art is in academics and in the hobby space, it was a cool feeling of accomplishment when you finally got something working. LLMs are very helpful here if you use them right - e.g. as a tutor if starting out. in the business, it was always best to be value and result oriented, which very often has nothing to do with art and composed thought - shipping something that kinda works is priority 1. LLMs can significantl…
I would disagree that the art is in the "academics and hobby space", though I suppose I may be using a different definition for 'art' here.
I read something some time a go and noted it down because I liked the concept:
> The japanese have two words for quality
> The first is "Atarimae hinshitsu", which can be roughly translated as "taken-for-granted quality." What do the Japanese take for granted when it comes to quality? They take for granted that things should work as they are supposed to, and they even see an elegance to things working properly -- whether it's cars, subway schedules, traditional flower arranging, or the famous tea ceremony.
> The second is "Miryoku teki hinshitsu", which means "bewitching" or "enchanting quality." This kind of quality appeals not to customer expectations and reliability (that things should do what they're supposed to), but rather to a person's aesthetic sense of beauty and elegance.
> Great products have both.
There's also the whole "Kaizen vs Cha bu duo" philosophy.
I think it was the above sentiments I was echoing, though I suppose more in a learning context.
Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
#114Not necessarily an identical thought to OP, but, anecdotally (n=1), my experience teaching the exact same course on Advanced Java Programming for the last 4 years has been that the students seem to be getting more and more cynical, and seem to think of programming as an art or as a noteworthy endeavour in itself less and less. Very few people have actually vocalised the "why do I even need to learn this if I can writ…
I taught intro to programming ~15-20 years ago. Back then everyone just copied each other’s assignments. Plus ça change
Yes, but, even then I feel the point was more "I need to pass to get a job, this currently feels beyond my skills/energy/time, and morals are secondary".
The important shift here is that there's increasingly a more "what pointless checkbox exercises these are" vibe to it, as if cognitive offloading of learning / skill acquisition is now secondary due to LLMs, or even actively a productivity-culture-driven shameful waste of time, which I think is seriously misguided.
It feels as if the morality argument has turned on its head; the students seem to almost feel expected to cheat and work around the "luddites" as the perceived moral thing to do. By the time they realise the value of the skills they should have acquired it will be too late.
Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
#115AI will make you fast in the beginning but after a certain point your lack of understanding will catch up to you.
If you feel pressure to always skip understanding then that seems like an organization problem.
Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
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Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
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Re: Ask HN: Has AI stolen the satisfaction from programming?
#118If programming is woodworking, using AI is ikea assembly except they packed most the wrong parts in the box so I have to deal with customer service to go back and forth to get the right parts and the hardware parts don’t always function as intended leaving me to find my own. It’s a different, less enjoyable, type of work in my opinion.
This analogy is inaccurate and spreading it just plays into the hands of those trying to press down SWE salaries and their importance. A better analogy is that previously we had a hand saw, now we have one of those automatic ones which speeds up some processes a lot but cant be used everywhere in every situation.
It just is what it is. I hadn't contemplated SWE salaries at all with that comment. However, now I would love to see your argument for why SWE salaries should continue to be propped up as one of the highest paid professions? In a world where productivity gets a >10x boost and the barriers to entry get so low.
Logging is absolutely less labor intensive since the invention of the motorized chainsaw and other heavy equipment. A look at farming and other construction jobs is probably similar to what will happen with SWE in the long-term. With better tools and access to information, a ton of people can DIY a majority of things. There will still be jobs for pros to build the skyscrapers and other non-DIY friendly things. But, what developers can charge and what people are willing to pay will most likely change due to some of these technologies.