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Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

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Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MIT students expect (not unfairly) to work at Jane Street/HRT/Jump/Citadel Securities/OpenAI/Anthropic and then "settle" for Google or Facebook. They're not going to work for Fidelity or Raytheon.

MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school, just like other college kids. My first job out of college was non-elite aircraft manufacturer... guy on my left was MIT, on my right was CalTech.

> MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school

I seriously doubt that. This doesn't fit the class they come from. Maybe it would have in 1985 but not today.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#112

I find this seriously unlikely. Most MIT grads are getting into Jane Street or at minimum Google - they literally think working at Amazon is beneath them. Course 6 grads are not going unemployed. It is funny to hear that this person might have an unstable environment though - that isn't the profile of someone that gets into MIT. If OP is actually serious I'm more than willing to give resume advice - including in pers…

I was an undergrad and this is just wrong. Most are not going into HFT, and a bunch don't go into FAANG either. And not everyone who gets in was raised in a perfect upper middle class life. Do you really want to care about judgement from people who think not working at a trading firm is a failure? Those people are insufferable anyway

> and a bunch don't go into FAANG either

Then they start their own companies. They don't work at Oracle or Amazon or Fidelity or IBM.

> MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school

Just the vast majority of them? A handful don't at best.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#114
I dropped out of school around the .com bubble bust, for ill-considered reasons that I won't go into, and instead spent quite a lot of time and energy continuing to develop technical chops on my own. That part is only relevant to frame the next:

In 2008, amid the downturn cited in this thread as a similar inflection point to the one we see today, I landed my first SE job, after a few months of active searching. They hired me without a degree and without any formal experience. I had a small portfolio of example work, the technical knowledge that I'd developed, and my personal philosophy. The portfolio did little to help me. The technical knowledge served to barely avoid outright disqualification. It was my outlook that earned me a chance to show mettle.

This was local startup that was a half-dozen years old. There I learned what technical collaboration was like in practice, what it meant to build as part of a team. I learned the stuff that school and individual hacking doesn't teach. In a couple of years I moved on to a Fortune 100 company on a merger mission, and from there on to greener pastures in the industry. Now I earn comfortably, somewhere north of 90th percentile by geography. Each of those steps, along with a healthy dose of reading, taught me something that I needed to learn/understand about the craft and it's challenges. I was oblivious to the need to know most of them until after I wrestled with them.

One of the most important lessons, and one very relevant today: character traits, not merely technical learning, lend power to carving a successful path.

You are not nearly as likely to differentiate yourself by degree alone as was the case in the past. Even less so if people sense entitlement. That's not a judgement, but a caution.

Hiring right now looks like an absolute swarm of posers, far noisier than I've ever seen before, fighting to convince managers to hire them into senior salaries. They are empowered by magical answer generators that whisper secret sauces into their ears just in time to be vomited back and the interviewer. Even though some of them vomit better than others, the kind of manager that you want to work for (imo) is going to see right through those people - and is getting very tired of it.

So tired in fact that I'm ready to hire low/no-experience, high-character people into my senior slots if they show that they have passion for the craft and ethics to match it. I won't pay them a fortune out the gate, but I will match salary growth to competency growth once they are in the saddle.

Time is the fabled commodity, and there's a lot of time-waste going on at the moment.

My advice, if you're having trouble on initial approach: be humble, be curious, and show an honest + direct character - be comfortable in the knowledge that the new skill is not what you already know, but how well your outlook positions you to "leaRn into" the next curve. And then, don't stop carving.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levels.fyi has L5 at Amazon making $150k base, $220k TC. You might not be Jeff Dean or Andrej Karpathy but there's only two of them. None of us are. That's not remotely subhuman failure. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/systems-dev...

I make more than $220k now but OP 100% makes closer to $800K+ He definitely doesn't think people like me are human.

I sincerely hope that you seek and receive help.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make more than $220k now but OP 100% makes closer to $800K+ He definitely doesn't think people like me are human.

I sincerely hope that you seek and receive help.

What help?

There is no help that will stop me from being an untermensch and failure? It's not going to get me a 1600 or get me into a top school or make me earn $800k a year.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that you seek and receive help.

What help? There is no help that will stop me from being an untermensch and failure? It's not going to get me a 1600 or get me into a top school or make me earn $800k a year.

Don't worry. There are people with privilege who would never understand the mean. They fly high due to their circumstances and are just lucky.

Us, we have go strive for living. That's the unfairness in life. It would have been so much easier if lucky ones would acknowledge their luck than attribute for hard work and what not.

Everyone discounts luck while it is the biggest factor. Only action you can do is increase the surface area of your luck.

Try to find meaning beyond career. There are multiple ways to get lucky. Find your own luck. After all we are in an era where people get wealth screaming on top of their lungs to the internet.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levels.fyi has L5 at Amazon making $150k base, $220k TC. You might not be Jeff Dean or Andrej Karpathy but there's only two of them. None of us are. That's not remotely subhuman failure. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/systems-dev...

I make more than $220k now but OP 100% makes closer to $800K+ He definitely doesn't think people like me are human.

Huh?? I know people doing gig work struggling to live paycheck to paycheck. People making less than $50k a year who do not think they are "subhuman".

Why are you equating money with self-worth and dignity? That's a losing battle since there's always a bigger fish.

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope that you seek and receive help.

What help? There is no help that will stop me from being an untermensch and failure? It's not going to get me a 1600 or get me into a top school or make me earn $800k a year.

Like Peter, I do recommend talking to someone about this. You don't sound content, and life is too short to miss out on the journey.

I say this as someone who earns much less than you (never mind 800k), and who didn't go to a top school.

I'm no psychiatrist but your posts suggests that you see yourself as a failure, or possibly you've gotten that feedback from others directly. Perhaps at Amazon or elsewhere.

Projecting that feeling onto others suggests you would really benefit from talking to a professional about this.

I don't think you're a failure, I don't know you. But from what little you've revealed I'd say you're not a failure. But perhaps you had your own goals you failed to achieve?

Re: Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

#120
post #2

Truly sorry you feel this way. For what it’s worth, this was common for people graduating into the 2008 financial crisis, too. It’s actually unusual that we went for so long without another period of contraction. From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’…

I kept hearing about 2008 crisis. It is overrated. Just a market up and down ?

I can't speak for other places but graduating into the Icelandic market at the time was brutal. The state was effectively bankrupt at the time.
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