111–120 of 195 posts
The truth is engineers are still being hired and it costs money (and time/money) to interview more people or continue interviewing people in the pipeline, so offering more to a good candidate is worth it for most companies.
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People can & will walk away for reasons other than competing offer. It also depends on how badly they want to get a new job. I both have and have seen others interview on the basis of "sure, why not" and if the pot isn't sweet enough then whatever. That said, people in this position should cite how sweet that pot needs to be upfront instead of after the fact. But that doesn't always happen.
But see - that's part of "negotiation" too - you need to make them want you before you hit them with higher demands. If you're up-front you might not even get the interview.
Also, as a hiring manager, the one way people found themselves with me saying "That's great, go screw" was when it was clear they were playing us comp-wise by lowballing us to get their foot in the door & then raising the bar once the offer came. That's deceptive, and a character flaw I don't want to deal with in an employee.
Now if you mean keep your cards close to the vest and don't reveal your number until after they give theirs, then I agree. That's good negotiating tactics. But it's not always possible. And now we're back to who is in direr straights: is the candidate willing to walk away if the company demands a number & they don't want to give one? Is the company willing to lose a candidate in this situation? Whomever blinks first wins the day on this one.
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People can & will walk away for reasons other than competing offer. It also depends on how badly they want to get a new job. I both have and have seen others interview on the basis of "sure, why not" and if the pot isn't sweet enough then whatever. That said, people in this position should cite how sweet that pot needs to be upfront instead of after the fact. But that doesn't always happen.
Agreed. Regardless of reason, you need to be prepared to walk away if you are serious about negotiating.
People always talk about competing offers, but your negotiating power will never be higher than when you literally don't care if you get an offer or not. If I'm perfectly content in my current gig, the only way I'm leaving is for a *serious* upgrade. And it's no skin off my teeth if I walk away from a bad deal.
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Because it matters that the BATNA is outside the negotiation.
Why does that matter? I would like to see a sentence or scenario where “BATNA” is not interchangeable with “alternative” or “option” or some other synonym. I read the Wikipedia page, but I’m still unclear what information I gain from BATNA over just “best alternative” or “second best option/choice”.
'Alternative' or 'option', leave the question 'to what?'.
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I am struggling to come up with a sentence where using the acronym "BATNA" provides additional utility compared to just using "alternative" (or "option"). In seemingly all situations, a decision maker is considering their most preferred alternatives rather than their least preferred alternatives.
The BATNA acronym helps people understand negotiating a bit better, but outside of education, I don't see that it has much use.
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Any thoughts on root cause from your perspective? I've been on the other side of the table recently, and I agree it feels like a buyer's market. But it still took a while to find good candidates, and a lot of candidates showed up to interviews weirdly unprepared on even the basics. If it's a drought for you, then I'd have to add: It seems like an especially weird drought, as well. Supply and demand seem to be doing o…
I'm not sure on the root cause. Like I said, there's several people that I know who are all experiencing the same things. I have 20 years experience and a phd. Others in my friend group have no degree whatsoever, but have a decade of experience. Several years ago, we were all offered multiple jobs at a time. Now, we are not even getting requests for interviews. EDIT: adding that, because we all live in a non-metropol…
Someone summed it up nicely for me - remote work gives you speed. Colocation (typically office) gives you velocity. A startup needs velocity.
I usually did this in the past, and it has worked every time so far (four times). Not in the US, this from Switzerland. I think of a number I want to earn in the new job. For example, if I would currently make 100k, I say I currently make 115k in my current role, and then they offer 120k. I accept, done. I did this after a bad experience. Made-up numbers. They offer me 80k, I already make 90k, I say I already make mo…
And there’s no reason to do it. Negotiation is about what you will bring to the new company, and how much that is worth to them. Your old salary is irrelevant.
If you want 110k just say that. If they ask what you made before, you can say something like “I was underpaid at 80k, which is why I’m talking to you now.”
The most important part of negotiation: Having an offer in the first place. Unfortunately, I and a dozen other software devs (all of whom I know personally, and all of whom are amazing) are not getting any interviews, much less offers. None of us have ever experienced a drought like this before, either. So... ??? Thankfully, we're all still currently employed.
I’m from France where the market is still tense, so I have hard times understanding whether it’s a general trend or a local problem: - How do you know it’s not just your surroundings (technologies, skills, area) which are dry? - Are you maybe getting aged? (The programmer market is very ageist, hopefully I’m not turning the knife into the wound, but I’m not young either) and maybe you are experiencing the dry part of…
I don't understand this mindset. We should all support our working class brothers to get better wages. Just because the custodian, accountant, and jr HR person are also paid crap doesn't mean we should all grin and bear because at least we're not the day laborers outside.
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more money solves that in the end doesn't it? Just ask for enough to cover the tax burden
But isn't it better to find a tax avoidance strategy that's mutually beneficial to both sides? Sure, you can ask for an extra $10k that gets taxed down to $5k, but if you can find a creative workaround to get $8k instead for the same $10k, isn't that better than trying to ask them for a $16k raise to make up for the taxes?
Just tell me what you want, and let me as SME figure out how to get you there.
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Why does that matter? I would like to see a sentence or scenario where “BATNA” is not interchangeable with “alternative” or “option” or some other synonym. I read the Wikipedia page, but I’m still unclear what information I gain from BATNA over just “best alternative” or “second best option/choice”.
Because it is more precise. 'Alternative' or 'option', leave the question 'to what?'.
I declined this job offer because I had BATNA.
I declined this job offer because I had a better option.
I negotiated more PTO because I had a BATNA.
I negotiated more PTO because I had a better alternative.