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Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

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111–120 of 212 posts

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this strictly legal? For example, in the scenario where a "misconfigured" bot of a large evil corporation get's taken down and, due to layers of ass covering, they think it's your fault and it cost them a lot of money. Do they have a legal case that could fly in eastern district of Texas?

Texas, America?

Texas, USA.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#112
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it requires the client to try and extract the archive; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb is the generic description.

What archive? The idea was to use Transfer-Encoding: gzip, which means the compression is a transparent part of the HTTP request which the client HTTP library will automatically try to extract.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#113
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. What does number 5 do? Also, how do gzip bombs works, does it automatically extract to the 20gb or the bot has to initiate the extraction?

Most HTTP libraries would happily extract the result for you. [citation needed]

Java class java.net.http.HttpClient

Python package requests

Whatever is the default these days in C#

Honestly, I have never used a modern HTTP client library that does not automatically decompress.

I guess libCurl might be a case where you need to add an option to force decompress.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#114
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I mean, the client device can also send zip bombs A GET request doesn't have a body. There's nothing to gzip.

What if they send a POST request?

You close the socket as soon as you see "POST" and there's no POST handler registered.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#115

First off, make a website defend mode that can be triggered to serve different content. Then, do the following: 1. Add a robots.txt, make it look like it's wordpress (Disallow: /wp-admin etc) 2. If any client requests /wp-admin, flag their IP ASN as bot. 3. If a client is a bot, send it a gzip bomb (100kB size, unpacked around 20GB), use Transfer-Encoding: gzip and Content-Encoding: gzip to also punish malicious web…

I only checked your website out because of the other commenters, but that is one helluva rabbit hole.

I spent 2 minutes of my life shooting cookies with a laser. I also spent close to a quarter of a minute poking a cookie.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ban an IP or even an ASN, there could be (many) thousands sharing that same identifier. Some kid will unknowingly run some free game that does some lightweight scraping in the background as monetization and you ban the whole ISP?

How would that be a false positive? The kid might not be malicious, but they absolutely are running a bot, even if unknowingly. If anything, calling attention to it could help people notice, and therefore clean up such things.

The kid isn't. But everyone else using their ISP that your ASN-based block also blocks is a false positive. An ASN block easily has a granularity of "10% of an entire large country". And nobody is going to take your site blocking e.g. all Comcast users as "oh, we should investigate which Comcast user made some slightly suspicious requests, thanks for telling us".

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#117
As addition to already mentioned robots.txt and ideas of penalties for bad bots (I especially like idea of poisoning LLMs).

I would be add some fun with colors - modulate them. Not much, I think would be enough to change color temperature to warm or cold, but same color.

Content of modulation could be some sort of fun pictures, may be videos for most active bots.

So if bot put converted colors to one place (convert image), would seen ghosts.

Could add some Easter eggs for hackers - also possible conversion channel.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#118
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that be a false positive? The kid might not be malicious, but they absolutely are running a bot, even if unknowingly. If anything, calling attention to it could help people notice, and therefore clean up such things.

The kid isn't. But everyone else using their ISP that your ASN-based block also blocks is a false positive. An ASN block easily has a granularity of "10% of an entire large country". And nobody is going to take your site blocking e.g. all Comcast users as "oh, we should investigate which Comcast user made some slightly suspicious requests, thanks for telling us".

Fair, but we are talking about blocking just OP's site, correct? OP flagging a bot doesn't take down that ISP's access to the internet, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the power any individual site owner has.

So is that such a bad thing? If OP is going to use this to provide data about bots, blocking mass amounts of the internet could actually be a terrific example of how many people are at least tangentially connected to bots.

Re: Ask HN: Website with 6^16 subpages and 80k+ daily bots

#120

First off, make a website defend mode that can be triggered to serve different content. Then, do the following: 1. Add a robots.txt, make it look like it's wordpress (Disallow: /wp-admin etc) 2. If any client requests /wp-admin, flag their IP ASN as bot. 3. If a client is a bot, send it a gzip bomb (100kB size, unpacked around 20GB), use Transfer-Encoding: gzip and Content-Encoding: gzip to also punish malicious web…

Genuinely interested in your thinking: superficially looking, your anti-bot ideas are a bit contradictory to your Stealth browser, which enables bots. Why did you choose to make your browser useful for bot activity? [1] https://github.com/tholian-network/stealth

Just because web browsers like Firefox, Safari, and Chrome are trackable by default and generally care not about the anonymity of their users - doesn't mean that a web browser should behave that way.

Being able to use the web anonymously is a value that should be held up against moral values. Malicious scraping of websites should be, too. Both ideas can simultaneously true, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. I also support initiatives like the web archive which I consider "good behavior" of web scraping.

If a person asks me for the dataset of my website and they don't have a competitive business that they run, I'm even happy to open source the dataset generation part. Contributors get more rights, abusers get less rights. That's how it should be in my opinion.

I don't see them as contradictory.

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