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Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

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Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#111

Post by albert_e »

nmridul wrote: post #68
albert_e wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is true for the affluent class. smartphones are necessary to pay via UPI smartphones--bank accounts--aadhaar card in case of some low income workers, smartphones are not universal in case of some migrant workers (including those that come from neighboring countries in search of jobs) .. aadhaar or bank account may not be immediately available while digital payments are definitely becoming common cash is still ac…

>> smartphones are necessary to pay via UPI No. [1] UPI money transfer without Internet or smartphone; know how to do it - https://www.businesstoday.in/industry/banks/story/upi-money-...

This may be an option but seems rather convoluted -- needs a lot of phone menu navigation and inputs-- that practically very few if any must be using it. I for one never heard of it much less seen it in action.

There are areas without reliable mobile coverage... where people who need aadhaar authentication OTPs for their livelihood now, thanks to overzealous implementation of technology, are adversely impacted.

The suggestion is to assume that there are people who cannot use UPI and other shiny new tech, and make accommodations for them to lead their lives, rather than push for all digital and exclude some people.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#112

Post by armoredkitten »

kejaed wrote: post #55

Canada (Ottawa, ON): the only cash I deal with now is for the kids to learn about or for the odd farm stand. Most farm stands have gone to cashless as well. Canada’s got the Interac system owned by the banks which has merchant fees lower than credit cards and also provides an electronic money transfer system (email or sms based) for the public.

+1 to this. To add to this, Canada has for years had higher adoption/usage of debit cards relative to the US, and most transactions are handled with tap-to-pay, either with debit or credit.

But yeah. Bank-to-bank e-transfers through Interac are well-used as well. I pay my rent with it. I pay back my friends with it if we need to split a bill, since there's no Venmo here.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#113

Post by hiyer »

__d wrote: post #96

Australia here. Most places still accept cash, but approximately no-one uses it. Store staff almost always assume tap-to-pay, and have to cancel the transaction if you pull out cash. Bill payment is done with a pre-authorised debit transaction, credit cards, or using an Australia-only (I think?) system called BPay. Most utilities, etc, have a BPay number, and most (all?) bank apps and websites support BPay payments.…

I visited Australia recently and was surprised to see that many stores (even at the airport) add a surcharge if you pay with a card. I haven't seen that in any other country.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#114

Post by albert_e »

ghoshbishakh wrote: post #35
albert_e wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is true for the affluent class. smartphones are necessary to pay via UPI smartphones--bank accounts--aadhaar card in case of some low income workers, smartphones are not universal in case of some migrant workers (including those that come from neighboring countries in search of jobs) .. aadhaar or bank account may not be immediately available while digital payments are definitely becoming common cash is still ac…

In tier 2 and tier 3 cities almost everyone uses UPI. And every lower middleclass home has a smartphone. Low income workers such as security guards, factory workers, all have smartphones with a 4G plan.

The suggestion is to assume that there are people who cannot use UPI and other shiny new tech, and make accommodations for them to lead their lives, rather than push for all digital and exclude some people.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#115

Post by sofixa »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #62
beretguy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not accepting cash should be illegal everywhere across the world. What if your battery dies?

Or what if you don’t have a bank account?

Bank accounts are a necessary part of modern life in developed and many developing countries, and should be free and readily accessible to everyone.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#116

Post by signal11 »

rishikeshs wrote: post #4

Here in India, UPI payments are quite popular. I live in New Delhi the capital and never withdraw cash in my day to day life. The only instance where I have to withdraw cash is when I have to pay rent as my landlord accepts only cash to evade taxes. Apart from these barring very few, at least in cities everything works on digital payments. Please note that card payments are not at all popular in India and UPI is the…

> Please note that cash payments are not at all popular in India and UPI is the most common means of digital payment.

This is a very privileged (and personal) view.

In terms of objective hard data, the percentage of Cash in Circulation to GDP (CIC/GDP) in India is about 12.7% which is about the same as 2005-2015 figures (12.1%), in fact it’s slightly higher.

Essentially the ratio of cash in circulation to the total economy hasn’t changed materially, in fact it’s gone up slightly, measured over a decade.

Note that CIC/GDP did rise to 14.4% in 2021 due to GDP shrinkage post COVID, so it’s fallen from then, but that was a one-off blip.

Why CIC/GDP has not fallen further needs more investigation, but an interesting nugget is that most UPI transactions are very low value, 2/3rds under INR 500 ($6).

It’s also worth considering the impact of internet shutdowns, which can be long and sustained. People living in New Delhi won’t realise this, but many parts of the country have experienced this. Of course UPI now has “offline mode” (Lite) but it’s limited to small-value payments.

Some of the stats above was drawn from here[1], the writer is quite well known in finance journalism circles.

[1] https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/sorry-cash-isn-t-going-...

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#117

Post by alphabettsy »

US:

Travel frequently and even in very small towns I’m able to use Apple Pay. Adoption actually seemed faster with some small merchants compared to large holdouts like Walmart or Target which seemed to drag their feet.

Some bars are holdouts accepting Cash only but for the most part I very rarely need to pull out my card.

Some fuel pumps still require inserting my card, but that’s changing too compared to just a few years ago.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#118

Post by caeril »

I prefer cash, and use it as much as possible, but the US is becoming increasingly cash-hostile. More and more places are refusing to accept it. You will generally only find success claiming legal tender in situations where an actual debt has been incurred (e.g. you've already eaten your meal but have not paid for it yet).

I don't really understand why, from the merchant's perspective. It's like these businesses like reducing their profit margins by paying 2% interchange fees. Baffling.

Re: Ask HN: To what extent have digital payments replaced cash in your country?

#119

Post by smikhanov »

TekMol wrote: post #74
smikhanov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your bank leaks data, you would be in so much trouble that thinking about privacy implications of that would be pretty low on your list. That's just your bank. If a global payment processor like Visa would leak data, there probably would be ripples going through most financial system (i.e. whole countries abandoning it, etc).

How would the bank leaking data cause trouble?

Your entire digital life could be stolen from you if someone knows your name, address, DOB, and last 4 digits on your card. Attacker can go through e.g. the Gmail password recovery process very convincingly impersonating you.
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