Their moat is a combination of vertical integration(their parent company owns a bunch of venues) and contract lockup with other venues they don't own. Also, since artists make almost all of their money from tours, they know trouble will arise with the mess that is ticket/venue sales. If they go full capitalist and someone like Taylor Swift starts charging what the market will bear(maybe $10k/ticket ?), many people wi…
Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
111–120 of 169 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#112Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
^ This. ~15 years ago, I was working with venues to see how we could handle ticketing, etc. They ALL had exclusive deals where the venue could ONLY sell online through TicketMaster and then TM would handle ~100% of the back office reporting, tracking, etc and even the onsite credit card processing for walk up sales. It was one end to end system/suite and to replace any of it, you had to replace ALL of it once the con…
If this were the 1920s, antitrust enforcement would come down with an iron fist. The consolidation and control of the market is insane. I hope we can see some government movement about this at some point..
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#114Ticketmaster has exclusive deals with artists and venues. Artists not signing deals with Ticketmaster lose access to venues, and venues not signing exclusivity deals with Ticketmaster lose access to artists. There are enough of these on both sides that neither wants to lose the other so they sign. Side note: I worked at a small ticketing software shop circa the Ticketmaster/LiveNation merger. The CEO got a call from…
Ticketmaster is the official ticket seller for the NFL. It would be interesting if the NFL decided to do tickets themselves, as they easily have the scale and sway over the venues and teams. But there’s probably not enough money in it to justify it for the NFL and if Ticketmaster isn’t broken from their view, why fix it? I think we would need some entity on the scale of the NFL to fix this. Ticketmaster is too big to…
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
^ This. ~15 years ago, I was working with venues to see how we could handle ticketing, etc. They ALL had exclusive deals where the venue could ONLY sell online through TicketMaster and then TM would handle ~100% of the back office reporting, tracking, etc and even the onsite credit card processing for walk up sales. It was one end to end system/suite and to replace any of it, you had to replace ALL of it once the con…
If this were the 1920s, antitrust enforcement would come down with an iron fist. The consolidation and control of the market is insane. I hope we can see some government movement about this at some point..
I do too! I get so sick of Ticketmaster's fees upon fees upon fees and "sorry, your browser isn't Chrome" junk.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#116Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
So where’s Lina Kahn pressuring to break up these exclusive agreements? She made hay talking about them in 2022 but what has been done recently? https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/big-firms-lik...
> but what has been done recently? Specifically about Ticketmaster or what has FTC done more broadly? Proposed a rule against hidden fees (10 days ago). It's also supposed to give FTC enforcement mechanism so that it'd be more effective than state laws that were passed and basically ignored. Also filed an antitrust lawsuit against Amazon (less than a month ago) for how they're treating third-party sellers. And if I r…
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's really wild is that for the last 2.5 years the FTC has been led by somebody who's super dialed in on antitrust issues and trying to take these companies to court, but the government is having a hard time winning the cases. So either the courts have been bought and paid for, or the laws are weak and out of date because Congress is bought and paid for, or both. All this despite a rough but widespread understandi…
I posit a 3rd option: antitrust enforcers starting with Lina K are so incompetent that they cant win open and shut cases Exhibit A: action against a merger between Amazon and a robo-vaccum company, iRobot. Let that sink for a minute.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
So where’s Lina Kahn pressuring to break up these exclusive agreements? She made hay talking about them in 2022 but what has been done recently? https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/big-firms-lik...
Bigger fish to fry Ticketmaster is big but it’s not Amazon or banking.
A string of losses will set precedent that will get harder and harder to overturn. It's not clear from the outside if Ticketmaster would be a stronger case but something to ponder.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#120I live in a mid-size metropolitan city. We are kind of a perfect size because we are a large enough city that most A-list celebs will actually stop here on tours (albeit near the end their tours or for 1-2 shows only). We also have some awesome minor league sports teams with enthusiastic fanbases, and we get lots of visits from large sports teams like NHL, NBA, etc in pre-season travel games. Anyway, the point being that forever, our stadium had some non-ticketmaster product to manage ticket buying. It was usually terrible. Tickets would get bought out from under you mid-purchase, reservations would get double-booked, finding available seats was clunky on a computer and almost impossible on a phone. The site was slow and burdensome and the tickets got emailed to you and needed to be printed out. On the flip side, our events were really cheap. We already paid lower-than average for these events and then our ticket fees were like a tier-based price of either $2 (tickets under $30), $4 (tickets under $80), or $6 (tickets over $80) depending on the pricing tier of the ticket.
That all changed last year. Ticketmaster came in and became the exclusive provider for our stadium. The change was dramatic. First of all, there was an awesome mobile app that works really well. It was modern and fast and made is very easy to find and reserve a seat. No more glitches with people buying the same tickets as you or failing during checkout. It was easy to find upcoming games or events and pre-buying was fast and efficient. Plus now we could sell unused season ticket games on the aftermarket (which wasn't possible before). A lot of boring ticket management features that used to require phone calls between 10am - 3pm (Mon-Thur) could now be done anytime on the app, day or night, even on weekends, and even hours before a game or event. You can also now buy last-minute tickets even after a game has started now because of Ticketmaster, which wasn't possible before. We had an NHL team come into town for a pre-season game and we could buy pre-order tickets super easy, and the previous year the website actually crashed when they opened up these tickets. Oh and my favorite feature now is being able to use contactless tickets through my Apple Wallet. Lines are shorter when we get to the stadium as a result and just an incredible improvement of quality of life for me and my family. So there are a ton of big benefits to Ticketmaster.
The downside is the fees. A lot of the tickets we buy are only $30-40. I routinely pay close to 50% in fees with ticketmaster when I previously was paying 5-10% in fees. And worse, I don't actually know or understand the fee structure at all. I've even asked employees and no one seems to know. As far as I can tell, they basically handed over the keys to the stadium, giving full responsibility of ticket management to TicketMaster and so everything from the website, the pre-orders, the season tickets, the aftermarket, mobile checkin, last minute auctions, are all just part of the package deal that Ticketmaster offers.
As a result, I used to pay $34 for a hockey or basketball game, and I now pay ~$65 for the exact same seat that I bought last year. The team doesn't get anymore money, the stadium doesn't seem to be either. My ticket prices are still the same until you get to the fees. Two years ago I could go to an event for under $100 all-in for my family of 3. Now it costs me about $200.
So I wanted to provide perspective on what Ticketmaster offers. They do offer a lot for stadiums, who truly aren't equipped to manage a distributed and scalable ticket management product. So there is value in what ticketmaster offers. But do they deserve to make as much as the artists or athletes that I am paying to see? Hell no, and that seems to be the current pricing model. So I want to see Ticketmaster competed with. The problem is that no one else seems to offer a product that comes close.
For anyone out there that wants to start a competitor, you just need to offer a package deal for stadiums. Ticketmaster offers an all-in-one deal for stadiums so they don't have to worry about any app or web development, maintenance, ticket sales, or anything else.
Remember stadiums are owned by corporate real estate. They just want to collect their rent and keep values high on property. They outsource all labor, food, and management of the events to different people. So for ticket sales they don't really care what Ticketmaster charges, they just like to hand over the keys and know that the job gets done and to them that means that butts are in seats. That's all they care about, because if the stadium stays filled, then rent stays high, good artists and sports want to play there, and they keep getting paid. If Ticketmaster can do that while charging 50% fees to customers, and the company that only charges 10% can't. Then Ticketmaster is getting the contract. That's how it works.
Ticketmaster has a good product, people need to acknowledge that. That is why the upstarts and startups fail. But we need to see competition here, because the fees are getting out of hand and that is a direct result to ticketmaster being a monopoly.