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Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

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Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#111

Post by kelipso »

rg111 wrote: post #73
WJW wrote: post #12

> younger folks are above me. It feels undignified, humiliating at times. I'm not sure becoming a manager would solve that, as there might still be younger people managing you. Even if you become CEO, shareholders and investors might be younger too. I think a better approach would be to discover first why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger.

Slightly tangential, but in the span of my career, when I have worked with young people, I have enjoyed it much more than old boss-stereotyped bosses. I only once had a younger supervisor, and I preferred that much more than an old boss. Is it just me? I have also had a friend tell me the same.

I quit my last job mainly because my new manager was a few years younger than me. I found it got under my skin but dude was kind of annoying too lol.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#112

Post by wilg »

runjake wrote: post #104
wilg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just say you were offered it and preferred not to?

It would strike me as an arrogant thing to say, especially when they're better at management than I am. It would feel like I was crapping upon their skills and abilities.

I was just suggesting you could be more up front that it wasn’t for you so you felt less judged, but you could still praise the people who ended up doing it!

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#113

Post by KRAKRISMOTT »

johnatwork wrote: post #66
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #42

Good managers don’t seek out the role for its own sake; they naturally become one. The best managers I’ve seen (and have had the pleasure of working with) were extremely talented ICs who got along really well with others, and naturally transitioned to management roles when their own projects became too big in scope to handle on their own. The absolute worst managers I’ve seen (thankfully, none were my manager) only b…

I think the best thing to do is to pay managers less than developers and also disqualify anyone who demands to be a manager, that removes all the folks doing it for the wrong incentives. I know of a few managers that hate being a manager, and are not the best at it but they've done so because they needed the money.

We already do, the tech industry has a separate individual contributor path for a reason. Most middle managers below the VP level don't make more than the people they are managing. Engineers are very expensive.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#114

Post by aprdm »

Thissitesucks00 wrote: post #33
fnfjfk wrote: post #20

Management isn’t a promotion, it’s a different job, and being “stuck” as an IC shouldn’t be a thing. There’s nothing wrong with staying on the IC track forever and getting promotions rather than changing to management. You say that there are no promotion opportunities, but have you talked to your EM about the gaps to the next IC level for you?

This might help people sleep at night, but it's incorrect. Managers have more pay, more direct reports and more responsibility. It's the definition of a promotion.

Not true in tech companies , eng usually has an equivalent career ladder up to VP level with same pay bands

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#115

Post by HowTheStoryEnds »

JohnFen wrote: post #98
gtirloni wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranking is about a hieararchy and where someone is positioned in it. Managers are positioned higher in the hiearchy so it seems fair to say they are "higher rank". Whether that translates to real power or not depends on a lot of things. I think this discussion is conflating ranking and skill and these don't often correlate. > Managers are just doing a particular job that needs to be done, like all of the other jobs i…

> Managers are positioned higher in the hiearchy What hierarchy? Are you talking about the org chart? I don't see that as a hierarchy in the sense I think it's being used here. It's just a description of who is managing who, not of "rank" in some sort of militaryesque sense. My manager is not my "superior". He's the person responsible for ensuring that everyone in his department is working in an aligned manner, and f…

Do you approve your own leave or do they?

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#116

Post by giantg2 »

Eh, I'm a midlevel with 11 years experience. I haven't been promoted in about 9 years. I don't mind seeing younger people above me as long as they deserve it, even if they might not be at that level of capability yet.

We have a new college grad who has been at the company for about 18 months. They're going to make him our team's tech lead. He's a sharp kid, so I'm happy for him. I'm more baffled by management putting someone so green into that role. There's a lot of design experience and organizational structure/culture they don't know.

At least my current managers aren't malicious. But there are some strategy and political issues above them that I'm not happy about.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#117

Post by GoToRO »

Previous manager: she was a bad developer for 1-2 years, people wanted her out of the project, management proposed her a management position in front of the customer (pretty face, blonde hair, meetings all day, talk nice to people no matter how dumb they are). Even she was shocked that she was proposed for the job.

Another manager: quickly pushed up and enter in a terminal, deleted production database. He "decided" he really wants to be a manager. Probably management didn't want him on the project anymore but at least he understood some tehnical stuff so they kept him.

These are self-reported stories. Beer is magic.

The usual path is that you become friends with whoever decides to name new managers. Say yes to every stupid thing they say, act both surprised 6 months later when it fails and so on. I don't know why people are afraid of saying it as it is. It's funny how developers think that all you need to do is just learn one more thing. It's not. When my manager's manager came to town, he made sure he is 100% available to go to dinner and drinks and so on. That's what you need to do. Call wife, send kid away, you need to be seen by your manager at drinks...

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#118

Post by moomoo11 »

Idk. I consider myself a pretty good engineer (received exceeds expectations / max rating at every company I’ve worked at) and I made the salary cap for my level at each level. I make more than EMs.

When I tried being a manager I was told that they felt the team slacking without me doing the heavy lifting just 6 months in.. so I went back to being a team lead.

I’ll be honest out of a dozen plus managers in my career only 3 stand out as memorable. 2 of them are among my best friends today. Everyone else was forgettable at best or incompetent, but they got me my money which I care about more.

Now I’m starting my own company. There’s no challenge left for me technically speaking because I want a challenge that I can’t figure out easily.

Don’t worry too much about being managed by younger people or whatever. Who cares.

If you are working for someone else, and you do not have significant equity (99% chance you won’t - even getting 1-2x salary in RSU isn’t significant imo when we are talking about 1 trillion plus market cap)… just get the max money you can and enjoy life.

Stressing about this is a waste of energy. Trust me.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#119

Post by lampington »

johnea wrote: post #81
paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

> Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. Man, sounds like some serious coolaid drinking to me...

Still true that it's not based on seniority, though. And there will generally be some kind of skill involved, even if its (eg) skill in the sleazier end of soft skills rather than skill in management per se.

Re: Ask HN: Stuck as a developer for 15 years. How to become a manager?

#120

Post by Apofis »

paxys wrote: post #74

You seem to have some misguided ideas about management that you first need to get rid of. - Management isn't a "next step" for developers but an entirely different career path. You don't naturally progress into it, and no one owes it to you. It takes a whole new skill set and lots of deliberate work to make the switch. - Like any other job title, "manager" isn't handed out based on seniority but skill. If you think i…

I think being a Lead Engineer / Hands-on Engineering Manager is a natural progression path. It’s a bit like being a project manager and an engineer, so I think you’re being a bit harsh here. There’s plenty of paths forward. You can then move on to a staff engineer, principal engineer, and distinguished engineer or just CTO or founding engineer of a startup.
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