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Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

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Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#111
You haven't fallen out of love with programming, you have grown disenchanted with The Love of the Toolchain. The almighty toolchain, long and powerful, and you Cannot Program Without It (nevermind actual history). The check-in, check-out. The issues and the Jira boards, or any kind of boards. And then there's probably a lot of Agile junk to go with it.

I shifted into a job where programming enhanced the role. Now I expend mental effort on coming up with novel algorithms. My struggle is to express how I think in terms a computer will understand, rather than wrestling with the Jormungandr of what the profession has turned into.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#112

The red tape is garroting us. My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm regardless if she's using them or not - there is no override policy - and the company is singing the success story of saving 40 dollars in licensing. At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and…

> At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and allow it. You know, this I never quite understood - why not provide example repos that follow all of the best practices? After all, the majority of the apps will be quite similar in their architectures and technologies (at least in…

I am writing best practices for my department. Nobody else wants to do that, it does snot help the career and it eats up you own time from other projects that still need to be delivered. Managers don't care, they are not measured by that. I do it for my team and share with others, there is no other reason.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#113
I was working on my own project. Medium-sized, a full-stack web application that I'll release somewhere this year. It's a Next.js front-end, I did all my own CSS and optimisations, semantic HTML, accessibility, load performance, TTI optimisations. The CMS is a headless one that I use Next.js to connect directly to the database with. It's hosted on a server I manage myself, and I set it up so that a git push to the main branch would build and deploy the entire thing.

Setting all that CI/CD stuff up took me maybe 6 hours. Building the website (front and back-end) took me a few weeks. It's a complicated piece of software, but fun to build.

I avoided using unnecessary tools. I only added what was absolutely necessary. And based on my 22+ years of experience (including some FAANG companies and the likes), in any professional setting, this project would've taken 5 front-end developers, 3 back-end developers, 2 testers, 1 project manager, 1 scrum master, 1 product owner, 1 UX and 1 UI designer, and perhaps one or two interns.

And it would've taken 2 years or longer.

I've done projects with teams like that in the past where trivial work was drowned in red tape, office politics, endless opinions and meetings, weekly time-wasters (Scrum... fuck I hate Scrum!), endless "documentation" that nobody reads...

And I remember being put on a dashboard page. The team was taking 4 hours to plan all the stories. During that time I just started working (remotely, muted, camera off) and I finished the entire dashboard completely to specs, no bugs, in the time it took them to write the stories and tasks and estimate them.

"Done."

"What?"

"I'm done. It's all done. I pulled all 18 tasks to myself, verified them, and the entire story and epic is now done."

"What?"

"I also wrote all the e2e-tests."

"What?"

"Scrum is a huge waste of time."

"Actually, I disagree, because..."

Yeah, consultant who is paid by the hour. It makes perfect sense to pull all 20+ people into a 6-hour long retrospective every single week. Because 12 of those people are from your employer, and that's a lot of money for doing fuck all.

When I worked at Apple, we had a small team and we just did standups on Slack. Just write "I did X, I will do Y, no impediments," and that's it. No scrum bullshit, no sprints, no retrospectives. We just communicated using words (written, preferably) and got shit done.

Now I'm working for a large corporate company that follows all the things by the book. And the book sucks. I counted: 16 hours per week in unnecessary meetings. Then another 10 hours in meetings where most people are unnecessary. And when I speak up against it, people don't trust me. Scrum is their God.

I hate my job so much.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#114

> Any project I work on is connected to a million different tools, workflows and services, I was just skimming and read that, and I thought "he is working in Javascript" and yep, later on that's it. I stay away from the Javascript/TS ecosystem (npm et al). I program mostly in Go, but also quite a bit in Typescript. I would learn/use (even if for personal projects) more boring tech stacks, like Java/C#/Go/PL-SQL/T-SQL…

I have several side projects where I use a simple Spring Boot backend and I feel I can focus more on the fun part (solving problems). It just works! There is also a huge eco system of good quality open source libraries compared to some of the newer backend languages.

This feeling is absent from React-based apps. The React eco system has been around for many years now, but is missing many of the advantages age typically brings. The eco system feels much more fragile and driven by hype. I simply don't trust things to work as smoothly. Maybe this instability is what keeps React popular? If it becomes more stable, it will not generate as much hype and developers move to the next big thing.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#115
I met a guy in the forests of Canada who was riding around on an ATV with his dog close behind.

We talked for a bit, he works in Forestry for the provincial government there.

He was going around gathering data from wireless water temperature logging devices, data which would enable analysis of the effect of logging and other extraction operations on trout migration patterns.

He left me with a hot tip - versus the groundwater fed ones, surface-fed rivers are clear and cold, perfect for taking a dip on a hot July day.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#116

Programming is tedious when your implementing someone else's vision, thats why I stopped doing it professionally. I still write a ton of code to make my life easier but since I'm not a developer by title I can pick whatever language and tools I want. I often use SQLite just to keep the DBAs out of the picture also.

What do you do now? Are you happier?

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#117
One of the things that bothers me lately is that the "tools" (libraries, frameworks, documentation, toolchains, baked-in enforced brogrammer conventions, questionable service lock-ins, etc.) are usually in many ways poor-quality, poorly-designed, and inferior to what I've used in the past.

I won't itemize all the ways here, because I started, and had to delete them, because it would take hours and ruin my day (and some communities would never speak to me again).

Another thing that bothers me is that Web search hits are mostly SEO, posturing, or otherwise low quality or negative.

It's no wonder, if a lot of people are seeing software as an unpleasant and poorly-effective corporate BS activity that one only does for income and ladder-climbing/job-hopping. Because that's what it's being made into.

Another thing that bothers me is mostly symbolic: so many open source projects now base much of their communities and support around Discord. Despite nominally being about open source, it seems they've somehow missed the ongoing lessons of the last few decades in that space.

There was a time when this would be glaring sign of bumbling corporate effort that didn't "get it"; now it just means ordinary programmers or brogrammers who're just mimicking what they see around them (which is self-perpetuating).

If you're feeling discouraged, I don't have a good answer right now, but I guess look around for like-minded people, and how to carve out a less-BS oasis.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#118

The red tape is garroting us. My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm regardless if she's using them or not - there is no override policy - and the company is singing the success story of saving 40 dollars in licensing. At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and…

I agree and offer another perspective. My red tape comes from Google Play and App Store. Their restrictions, opaque manual review process, slowness, inability to quickly push updates, and cumbersome storefront backends have pushed my company to move away from native mobile development, which I love, to a web wrapped app, which I disdain.

I distinctly remember thinking in 2014 there was no way the respective app stores were going to get worse. By far my worst professional prediction.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#119

This is exactly why I can't work at a job in the industry. I work on my own code ([1], comments at [2]), and it is exactly why I do this; I wouldn't enjoy it otherwise. For me, I just decided to forego jobs and work on my code the way I want to until I eventually make a business out of it. Or to keep it as a hobby and do something else as a job. (I have a CDL for this reason.) I don't know if that will work for you.…

How do you sustain yourself in the meantime? Or do you already have a business?

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#120

The red tape is garroting us. My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm regardless if she's using them or not - there is no override policy - and the company is singing the success story of saving 40 dollars in licensing. At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and…

It makes me wonder whether companies should consider hiring more people dedicated to dealing with the red tape to unblock engineers. I suppose managers to a certain extent are the ones doing this work, but in many cases it's not enough, how about a new role that is dedicated to cutting the red tape?
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