Why should it be less fair than what a search engine does? It’s really just building a better model.
A search engine directs people to the original work. This doesn't.
Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
111–120 of 194 posts
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#112100% agree - the likes of ChatGPT are straight up generating revenue based on adding value to stolen work.
All of a sudden everyone has issues with free information when Google has been doing this for years.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#113Is it unfair for you to create content/products/etc after you have read and learned from various sources on the internet, potentially depriving them of clicks/income? People get internet hostile at me for this question, but it really is that simple. They've automated you, and it's definitely going to be a problem, but if it's acceptable for your brain to do the same thing, you're going to have to find a different ang…
You usually expect people to cite sources. Granted, that very often doesn't happen, and the amount of citing expected depends on the context. But ChatGPT just doesn't cite sources at all. I think there's a case to be made that they should.
ChatGPT doesn't have a concept of sources. It has weights that together define a function that allow it to guess the most likely next word from the context. As a neat side effect of this contextual next-word guessing, it often can share accurate information.
If ChatGPT were to be required to share its sources, they would need a completely different approach. I'm not commenting on whether or not that would be a bad thing, but it would render the current iteration completely useless. You can't strap a source-crediting mechanism on top of a transformers-based model after the fact.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#114Why should it be less fair than what a search engine does? It’s really just building a better model.
A search engine directs people to the original work. This doesn't.
Have you used Google in the last 5-10 years? It's been slowly parsing more and more information from websites so you never leave Google.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lets turn this around the other way. I create a omniscient copyright detection bot and face it at everything you create 24 hours a day 7 days a week. You go home and sing happy birthday to your kid. The bot gives you a non-monetary warning for using a copyrighted work without permission. No big deal, but it is on your permanent record. It had been a stressful day so you take up your evening hobby of painting. You lik…
The first two situations you mention almost certainly aren’t copyright violations. The third is at least a solid “maybe.”
They aren't, or they shouldn't be, but that's the point of the parent's comment.
Look at the videos flagged by youtube or copyright trolls, a lot of them are not actual copyright violations, but they are flagged anyway by the algorithm and removed or demonetized. And it takes a lot of work to fight those claims.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#116All I have to say is, as technologists, anyone who is criticizing ChatGPT and has not been criticizing Google is a hypocrite. It's well known Google tries to keep you on Google by parsing more and more information from websites and summarizing it. Ex, Wikipedia summaries, IMDB Scores, Review Stars, etc...
If you have a problem with ChatGPT's "scraped data", then you have more fundamental issues with how the internet is as it is today.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#117No. It's not. Also, it's not unfair if I study someone's work and then learn from it. Also, it's not unfair if you see my internet present and are inspired to do similar things. At some point participating in the internet means your stuff is going to be seen. I wear glasses to read web content. I don't think the glasses company should pay royalties for what I read. chatGPT is a tool that allows me to understand and u…
But they are going to monetize regardless of what we want. If that's the case, they need to retribute any copyrighted content,etc...
You're being selfish too. How do you think we have phones, etc... ? Capitalism applies to knowledge too.
ChatGPT took advantage of that and wants to monetize it while cutting people who spent time, money, resources, etc... Just like copilot, plain and simple.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#118Yes it absolutely is, but imo less so than what GitHub Copilot and various image generation companies are doing. My theory is that if AI turns out to be as disruptive as the current hype suggests, the conflict between those who feed the AI vs. those who profit from it might be the next big social rift. Artists are already in full rebellion against this, as they should be, being nearly eclipsed by AI, except when it c…
> Artists are already in full rebellion against this,
Huh? No. Some artists are maybe?
> as they should be, being nearly eclipsed by AI
Not even close. It's like looking at the newest brand of clip art.
Non-artists don't (maybe can't) know that particular feeling, at least not with regard to being told you're angry about "what's supposed to look like art".
(Heck, artists have been told that with regard to other humans' art for centuries, for one)
Going even further, a lot of artists already know how to build on this new tech without ripping people off.
I used to teach college art classes and would have loved to integrate this topic into the curriculum. It'd be a great ongoing discussion, no matter the legal outcomes.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#119Well you could say same thing about the answers that Google displays on it's pages instead of search results! If you don't want these crawlers to index your content I am pretty sure you can disable via robots.txt just like Google.
The training model data sets have inconsistent respect for robots.txt. Also, I believe most of these models are not continuously crawling websites to update their data like a search engine does. That means if you're crawled once, you may not be crawled again and you'll still be in the datasets. I'd also argue that Google directing traffic to your website is a good alignment of incentives. ChatGPT spitting out answers…
I bet that fully half the time, I read the google answer, click on nothing and go on my way.
Re: Ask HN: Isn't ChatGPT unfair to the sources it scraped data from?
#120Well you could say same thing about the answers that Google displays on it's pages instead of search results! If you don't want these crawlers to index your content I am pretty sure you can disable via robots.txt just like Google.
The idea that a robots.txt will save you is laughable.
True. Robots.txt is already a very weak thing. I disallow all access using robots.txt, but there are many crawlers who ignore it and I have to maintain an overt blocklist for them.