It is absolutely possible, you just need to find company/team with an established product that is not trying to mimic a startup. I work 8a - 5p M-F, and have done so for over a decade.
Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
111–120 of 151 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#112Time to leave Amazon
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#113Say no.
Find a new job if they object.
I’ve done the endless late night meetings a few times in career. It always leads to burnout.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#114I work a strict 9am–6pm schedule from western Europe, and interact with both Asian and American colleagues. I simply decline all meetings that are outside of my work window, and it would probably be against the law for my management to expect me to do otherwise ("right to disconnect"). I do know, however, that some of my colleagues in Asian countries feel an non-official pressure to accept late-evening meetings so th…
In a sense you outsourced your pressure to a country where it is less socially accepted to refuse I guess?
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Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#115> I'm thinking of starting out on my own someday, but I wonder, is it even realistic to have a 9-5 kind of structure in IT/software dev field ?
Yes. I've done it before, and am doing it now. Including at startups. It's about intentionally setting your own boundaries and being firm on them.
Every job in every industry will ask you at some point to give more than is required, and it's up to you to set the boundaries on when and how you say yes and no to these types of requests. My sister works in a non-technical industry and the text of your post could be something she's said to me in the past if you just replace "IT/software" with her industry. And again, her issues are all caused by simply saying yes to everything asked of her without any boundaries.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#116It's definitely possible to have 9 to 5 software jobs with a good work life balance. For the last decade I've worked for small businesses. nonprofits, and most recently a non tech manufacturing company. All had 9 to 5 schedules with no expectation that you be there outside of regular work hours unless it was a true emergency. In the last ten years, I've had to work emergencies and overtime maybe a total of 6 to 8 hou…
Same, but working for nonprofits is unlikely to make you the salaries you hear about on HN. Same for small/non-IT companies, I'd guess?
I do feel like OP should definitely start looking at other jobs though, it seems likely they can find something with a more reasonable schedule.
Technically, they didn't even ask for 9-5 strictly, they asked for "structured", and I think the implication is: predictable, regular. Even if it includes some predictable, regular scheduled evening time? This seems to me like it should be do-able, but I'm not sure -- I work in nonprofit sector, where it definitely is.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#117It's funny to me that you took joining leadership as a path to less meetings!
The only time I worked stupid hours in my career was in a director role: I was in the office at 7:30, left no earlier than 6:30 (usually drove people home after that!), and got very friendly with the weekend cleaning staff because I was in there 2 weekends a month, minimum. I was doing at least 4 hours of meetings a day, and then trying to get a full day of work done on top of that. Forget that noise. I quit and went back to IC, where your problems are your problems, and other people's problems are (mostly) their problems.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fail to see what is unreasonable in my attitude, you give no explanation in your comment. My "team" is composed of around 700 people across Asia and Europe. My kids are in school during work hours. My 6pm—midnight slot is strictly private life and there is no reason for it to be otherwise. So, your last line contradicts the rest of your own comment.
Ok, that's all pretty subjective. I said in another comment, If you were a police officer, pilot, truck driver, deep sea diver or in numerous other professions, you'd be expected to do some weird hours and have a lot of time away from home. This is where I think people are being unreasonable. Remote work, we have it better than ever, no commutes, no time away from family, almost non-inconvenience but now, even a late…
Meeting ending at 00:00 means you go to sleep at 01:00 or so. That may be fine if you can sleep on till 9:00. But if the rest of the house wakes up at 6:30 to make their schedule… you’re in for a trouble.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#119Working crazy should be (the very rare!) exception and not the norm.
Not only does it sound poorly managed, it also sounds like people are focusing patching over problems, treating the symptoms instead of the cause.
If you can identify root cause of why teams need so many meetings at unusual times and propose alternatives that mean you don't suffer, do it.
If your suggestions are ignored or worse, it's probably time to leave and find yourself a company that gives a damn about people.
Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not their fault or problem though. It's the company's.
Regardless of who's to blame, the problem still exists. However, if you're unable to work async nor be flexible to accommodate your fellow team members, then I suppose the company's recruitment process is to blame.
I’d agree they should be upfront about out of normal working hours meetings. I know id pass.