Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 126 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#111

Post by goto11 »

pumpkinprog wrote: post #17

Read sources with different points of view and take the average. Pretty easy with the Russia-Ukraine situation, just take 2 western or Ukrainian news sources, 2 Russian and 2 relatively unrelated (China, Africa, etc.) Same with elections (2 Dems, 2 Reps, 2-3 unrelated international). Much more difficult with COVID since nearly everybody has the same point of view, and the remaining ones are marginal. IMO, in such a s…

> Read sources with different points of view and take the average.

This is a horrible algorithm. Someone claims the Holocaust claimed millions of lives, but someone else claims it never happened or at most killed a few thousands. Is the truth "somewhere in the middle"? Of course not. You cant just average sources of information of different quality.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#112

Post by Beltiras »

tragictrash wrote: post #100
willismichael wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average person is more or less an idiot No insult taken. Upon observing this same phenomenon, I am forced to conclude that I must also be more or less an idiot.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. I am also an idiot.

I am not an idiot. I may occasionally be ill informed resulting in sub optimal decisions or advice. Which is kind of the point of the question. How do you evaluate information? Do you trust Big Media? Do you trust grainy videos from the war zones? So you trust the declaration of the leaders at war?

I don't think there's a clear cut answer to any of these questions. Your truth will be a mix of your prejudices and the incoming information.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#113

Post by Spooky23 »

I follow a few journalists in areas that a follow. Understanding the “beat” gives you a sense of the events around the issue.

With things developing quickly like the war in Ukraine, I think you really need to keep your emotions at a distance. You have all sorts of propagandists and scammers literally or figuratively “monetizing” your attention and concern.

This is where I really have come to hate online news. The dopamine rush of doom scrolling and cable news is so much worse than newspapers were.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#114

Post by mgh2 »

krapp wrote: post #107
mgh2 wrote: post #88

I use the HN community as a filter. The highly educated are harder to fool.

Oh, sweet summer child. The educated are easier to fool because they tend not to question their own assumptions.

Do you have proof? Most knowledge came out of discoveries with the scientific method, which is not perfect but rigorous enough to avoid those human errors.

What you are describing is inherently human, biases affect both the educated and uneducated, but only one group was trained in critical thinking - at least that was the purpose of education (less and less today)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#115

Post by carapace »

Folks seem to be covering the basics. I would add, take time to think about why you want to "gather information"? What I mean is, most news is not actionable, or even if it is, you're not going to act on it. (When was the last time you contacted your representatives in re: some issue?) If you can't or won't act on a piece of news, do you really need to know it?

Figure out what you really want and need to know first, then look around for the (typically small and chronically underfunded) groups who are tracking and affecting those issues and values.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#116

Post by ce4 »

raphlinus wrote: post #38
pumpkinprog wrote: post #17

Read sources with different points of view and take the average. Pretty easy with the Russia-Ukraine situation, just take 2 western or Ukrainian news sources, 2 Russian and 2 relatively unrelated (China, Africa, etc.) Same with elections (2 Dems, 2 Reps, 2-3 unrelated international). Much more difficult with COVID since nearly everybody has the same point of view, and the remaining ones are marginal. IMO, in such a s…

If one side is serving chocolate cake, and the other shit, then what you end up with is a half-shit, half-chocolate confection. Some people apparently like that, but I personally don't. Another way of saying this is historian John M. Barry's quote, "when you mix politics and science, you get politics," also famously cited by Peter Daszak.

I think the idea is to apply some "mental kalman filter" for all of the more or less unreliable news sources and ending up with a better approximation of what the real situation is. And at least that should be equal or better than any single source alone.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#117

Post by krapp »

mgh2 wrote: post #114
krapp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, sweet summer child. The educated are easier to fool because they tend not to question their own assumptions.

Do you have proof? Most knowledge came out of discoveries with the scientific method, which is not perfect but rigorous enough to avoid those human errors. What you are describing is inherently human, biases affect both the educated and uneducated, but only one group was trained in critical thinking - at least that was the purpose of education (less and less today)

My only evidence is the number of people on HN who seem to believe in unsubstantiated conspiracy theories and falsehoods, and obvious partisan propaganda. The premise that HN is hard to fool is undone by simply spending enough time here.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#118

Post by mgh2 »

krapp wrote: post #117
mgh2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have proof? Most knowledge came out of discoveries with the scientific method, which is not perfect but rigorous enough to avoid those human errors. What you are describing is inherently human, biases affect both the educated and uneducated, but only one group was trained in critical thinking - at least that was the purpose of education (less and less today)

My only evidence is the number of people on HN who seem to believe in unsubstantiated conspiracy theories and falsehoods, and obvious partisan propaganda. The premise that HN is hard to fool is undone by simply spending enough time here.

Examples? Crypto? You can't avoid some crazies in any community, the problem arises when it becomes the consensus

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#119

Post by goto11 »

analog31 wrote: post #20

It's hard because "everybody is lying" might be one of the lies. My approach is slow thinking. I really don't have to form an opinion quickly on most things. If ever. I read for enjoyment. Something makes it hard to write propaganda that's actually interesting and enjoyable to read. I've shut down the "engagement" media, even if I agree with them.

> It's hard because "everybody is lying" might be one of the lies.

Absolutely - note it it a deliberate information warfare strategy to make people doubt all sources equally.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#120

Post by mbg721 »

analog31 wrote: post #20

It's hard because "everybody is lying" might be one of the lies. My approach is slow thinking. I really don't have to form an opinion quickly on most things. If ever. I read for enjoyment. Something makes it hard to write propaganda that's actually interesting and enjoyable to read. I've shut down the "engagement" media, even if I agree with them.

There can be a deluge of facts that are each individually true and are still misleading, or that are collectively meant to bring you to a specific conclusion. In that sense, it doesn't matter if everyone is lying, because your personal philosophy isn't built on whether a fact is ruled true or false by some fact-checker (hey, it's materially true, but we "debunked" it), but rather on how those facts and the reactions of those around you affect your life.
Post reply on HN