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Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

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Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#111

Post by 0z8 »

sonthonax wrote: post #84

Would it be possible to create a corporate structure around a patent to disincentivize trolling? Like if you set up a limited liability company that owns the code that's allegedly infringing on the patent, that then licenses out the offending code to you. But you structure the actual company as something you're buying a infringing service for a nominal fee under an SLA. If that shell company has no assets, and you pu…

I don't think there's a loophole there. If you're making, selling, or using technology that is patented by another party, you're infringing, even if you aren't the creator of that technology.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#112

Post by shmerl »

major505 wrote: post #108
Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

I'm curious. Can you counter sue a company like that? Since they do affect productive companies, that must be some law against that...

You'd think it should be a law against racketeering (something like RICO). Some tried to use that against patent trolls, but it didn't work.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#113

Post by mraza007 »

Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

HN never fails to amazes me this is one of the best community where people from all backgrounds can take part in discussion

And I wish all the best

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#114

Post by coldpie »

major505 wrote: post #108
Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

I'm curious. Can you counter sue a company like that? Since they do affect productive companies, that must be some law against that...

I think these days inter partes review is the way these trolls are slain.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#115

Post by ccvannorman »

cryptica wrote: post #79

>> I'm a one person company and have no idea what to do. Re-launch your company as a blockchain DAO then leave the country. What kind of retarded legal system facilitates this BS? Why would anyone want to live in such place? Anyone who has any self-respect and has had to work hard for their money would never consider taking any of this crap. Or if you really like your country (I.e. the land and its people), you can s…

Is this a legitimate solution, assuming leaving the country is viable? Can you give an example of a company sued by a patent troll that left/DAO'd and is now successful with the same product, unhurt by the troll?

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#116

Post by munificent »

whimsicalism wrote: post #49
wyager wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vindication is very expensive While true, this is unfortunate, because it means that patent trolls continue to get away with this behavior. I think society today is insufficiently aggressive and vengeful. The social utility of vengefulness is precisely that it allows for n-tit-for-tat strategies to punish social defectors like patent trolls.

> I think society today is insufficiently aggressive and vengeful. Sure, the society with one of the largest per capita prison populations in the world is insufficiently vengeful.

The historical structures that lead to the US's incarceration rate are not based on vengeance. They are in place to preserve existing pre-Emancipation power structures and continue to provide a source of unpaid labor.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#117

Post by sonthonax »

0z8 wrote: post #111
sonthonax wrote: post #84

Would it be possible to create a corporate structure around a patent to disincentivize trolling? Like if you set up a limited liability company that owns the code that's allegedly infringing on the patent, that then licenses out the offending code to you. But you structure the actual company as something you're buying a infringing service for a nominal fee under an SLA. If that shell company has no assets, and you pu…

I don't think there's a loophole there. If you're making, selling, or using technology that is patented by another party, you're infringing, even if you aren't the creator of that technology.

What is the threshold for indirect patent infringement? For instance, I don't fear being sued personally for using Microsoft office (which I'm sure infringes on something).

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#118

Post by freedomben »

kkielhofner wrote: post #97
eloff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if a competitor came to me for help with a patent troll who'd previously targeted me, I'd bend over backwards to assist. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As I've noted in other comments many people see business as war. There are good examples in business but the history of war has even better examples. Time and time again "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can work until one enemy is vanquished. In WW2 Stalin initially made a pact with Hitler while all the while knowing Hitler would violate it and invade anyway. Stalin just used it to buy time to ramp up the Soviet…

I think it really depends on the size here. In my personal experience most small businesses aren't ruthlessly competitive. That seems to happen once you grow to a size where there are clear lines between the management classes (upper, lower) and worker class.

It's a roll of the dice for sure, but I'd take that roll over a cold call of a lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#119

Post by restingrobot »

kkielhofner wrote: post #110
restingrobot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're drastically overestimating the competitive nature of business. I don't know your personal experience, but this sounds like a naive perspective. The number one thing a business cares about is the bottom line. None of these options specifically help the bottom line, especially considering that OP is a one person shop. There is simply no way they are big enough to matter to a large company, (why would the…

I really enjoy and appreciate the sentiment expressed in posts like these. I wish my experience more closely matched the decency and reasonableness expressed here. Unfortunately it doesn't. The OP has been provided with copies of lawsuits that sound like they may have been resolved one way or another. OP doesn't sound like they have any resources to assist in the matter. This would likely incur additional expense on…

>Assuming the competitors are currently or have incurred expense in dealing with it, the only reason left (as I see it) would be altruism on their part in banding together with a competitor.

Its not just altruism. If you expend resources on something, you want to get the most value out of it as possible. It would be extending the value of their investment into lawyers/settlement/etc. to band together and get a possible reversal of judgement/recompense. There is definitely something to gain from taking down the troll, including recouping any initial settlement.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#120

Post by wangarific »

Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

This is amazing, you are awesome for doing this.
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