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Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

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111–120 of 974 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#111

One option is to emigrate to the United States, driving up pressure on the engineers who remain. My near-term ancestors all left Germany due to poor wages and a tendency for Bismarck to sacrifice draft-age men in wars, and while moving to the US helped their own status it also did a bit to increase pressure at home.

> One option is to emigrate to the United States

Not an easy feat. Most would be reliant on the H1B program.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#113
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make pretty good money as a consultant. Last year I had 180 hours of saved vacation time (4.5 weeks). I gave up 115.5 hours of that on January 1 because I didn't use it. I expect I will lose a similar amount on next January 1st. I did get 6 federal holidays off. I used a bit of vacation to also take the day after Thanksgiving, the day before Christmas, and New Year's Eve off. I paid $8400 in insurance premiums for…

$200k is £146k I've seen mid-level tech jobs in London banks for £146k which come with 34 days off including state holidays like new years day, christmas, etc £146k for a full time contractor on 226 days a year isn't that much at all - £650 a day, which is in the "Senior developer" range [0] With 30% tax in the US and the cost of health insurance, that would be $68,400 For a staff employee on £146k (which is quite ac…

The whole IT contractor bonanza at £650/day is being killed off by the government in April 2021.

Also perm developer jobs in London are at around £100k at the 90th percentile, nowhere near £160k

See https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/london/developer.do

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#114
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If he earns more at Pornhub he makes the world better? Even FAANG is debatable.

Defining “better” isn’t easy, but “more valuable” is a falsifiable measure. I hate Facebook and Google but they do provide a lot of value to their customers (advertisers)

Facebook's effect on society is still being studied, the jury is still out. It may very well be more damaging than doing good. Just because people are paying for something doesn't mean its doing anything good. Tobacco is a good example.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#115
post #62

You need to increase demand: * Offer tax breaks for tech startups. The UK has a whole suite of these and London is number one in EU (out of now) for tech startups * Similarly non-tax pro-entrepreneur reforms and help: bankruptcy protections (the US does this very well, the UK very badly); access to mortgages / leases and credit for the self employed; better management of taxes and benefits; reform of regulation for s…

Reading about how the bankruptcy system works in the UK a few years ago (when Thomas Cook collapsed) was mind blowing. How could any system where the firm has to cease operations immediately no matter the circumstance be considered a good idea?

What’s not normal about it? As soon as you’re insolvent and not able to meet your due payments, why would you be allowed to keep raking up debt?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#116
post #73
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading about how the bankruptcy system works in the UK a few years ago (when Thomas Cook collapsed) was mind blowing. How could any system where the firm has to cease operations immediately no matter the circumstance be considered a good idea?

If you run out of money then you're screwed. What do you do if you are a person who runs out of money and can't pay debt? Surely you have your assets repossessed and some form of debt charge hanging over you for some time so you can't get into that position again (or rather that others will know not to lend you money again) Is it different in the US?

For corporations, it is generally different.

"In a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the debtor corporation is typically recapitalized so that it emerges from bankruptcy with more equity and less debt, a process through which some of the debtor corporation's debts may be discharged."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_S...

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#117
post #42
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like housing is much cheaper in e.g. London. In London you can be on the top 2% of earners in the country and still not be able to afford somewhere decent to live

Oh, and interest rates on mortgages in the UK are still like 3-4% for the longer fixes and you won't find a fixed term of more than 5 years...

No, they’re not. A 10-year fixed rate 65% LTV mortgage from Halifax is currently 2.15%

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#118

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

A lot of folks here are calling out the lower pay for SWEs in Europe and Canada as a failure - but also praise the low wealth inequality and low income inequality in Europe and Canada. You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money. Well, this is a lot like the housing conversation in the US. "I want my house to go up in value, and be a great investment!" Also: "Why…

> but also praise the low wealth inequality and low income inequality in Europe and Canada.

Now what happens if you include expats in the calculation?

> makes it much easier to found and grow a business without the threat of death

And yet you see a lot of Europeans and Canadians founders going to the valley for funding. Yet the opposite almost never happens.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#120

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

As a software engineer your leverage should be higher than near any other profession. This is why SV engineers are paid handsomely. Your productive output eclipses that of any profession without force multipliers. Your income should not be based on input (risk, comfort), but rather your output (scale, value).
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