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Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#111

Post by chrisandchips »

betaby wrote: post #78
sailingparrot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My top earning friends in Canada of the same experience level earn 2 - 4 times less than me and my peers here 2 is possible, 4 seems like a big stretch. Are you really comparing apples to apples? Or are you working for Google and comparing against someone working for a random consultancy firm in Victoria? In Montréal, top software developers salaries are around 200K CAD, a bit more if you go at Google, and Montreal…

200K CAD is basically unheard in Montreal for the IC. I know only one person with total compensation like that and she is kind of tech manager. 135K Cad is very high in Montreal for IC, median for the senior developer is around 90k, 100K considered very good.

To OP, or another curious reader, I think you need to take these kinds of posts with a grain of salt. That salary is rare in montreal, but it is also an extremely affordable city to live in. If you are seeking a comfortable life, I personally don’t think you need to be sweating whether you’re earning 120k or 200k CAD in a city like that.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#112

Post by techbro »

What’s your visa situation?

I am from India - getting a US visa/green card is too much trouble. I started at a tech company in Canada at 70K Cad annually in 2008. The salary went up to 120k by 2016.

In these 8 years - I went from a work permit to Canadian citizen. Also started a family with kids.

I moved to Bay Area in 2016 for a non-Faang company at 200K USD annual total compensation. Moved to Faang in 2018 and comp is 400k USD.

Will move back to Canada by 2020/21 and am counting on my company allowing remote due to covid. Yes it will be a salary cut but that’s fine. I want to raise my kids in Canada.

Bay Area experience is worth it - financially and technical too

Long term it depends on you

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#113

Post by klerpi »

ab_testing wrote: post #21

I think it depends what country are your from? Lots of Canadians here will suggest to move to the United States for higher pay and better opportunitites. But if you are from a developing country, then moving to the USA is very convulted and not an easy option for you like it is for Canadians. So, If you that is your situation, then Canada is an exciting option and you might be able to work for a lot of US companies t…

This describes me perfectly. I'm from Brazil and I want to leave for another country with better life quality.

The US is a nightmare regarding immigration. The Canadian system is straight forward for qualified people.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#114

Post by core-questions »

twiceaday wrote: post #93
core-questions wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The quality of life here is worse though in some ways So what you need to think about is this: if you would be putting away, say, $50k less a year in Vancouver, it's essentially like you're paying $50k more to live there. Is it worth it to you? Compared to San Fran, it has a more hospitable and interesting climate, the culture is perhaps less vivacious but definitely safer and more genteel, the outdoors and recreat…

These words would be fine if we were talking about a 20% pay difference. But we are talking about a 100-200% pay difference. And if you save half your pay in Vancouver, moving to SF increases your savings rate by 4-6x. This gets significantly better with lower savings rates. That is absolutely crazy. It would be so deeply irrational to have these options and choose Vancouver early in your career. Even just a single f…

> It would be so deeply irrational to have these options and choose Vancouver early in your career.

That is, if your only consideration is financial; which is an equally irrational way to live your life. You have to consider the social cost of uprooting yourself and moving around - there is huge value in building not just a "network" but an actual group of friends, other families, etc. to form community. This of course is something often missed by the sort of small-souled bugmen that are attracted to working at high-value Silicon Valley jobs, "changing the world" by "disrupting" the way people deliver pizza or call a cab. (Imagine pouring out your best years slaving away at something so meaningless!)

If you spend the early years of your career living in an $2000/mo room in some bunkhouse, not developing real connections with anyone, and then drop out of the sky in another city as you approach 30, don't be surprised if you've missed out on many of the other things that actually make life worth living, and don't be surprised if you've paid other opportunity costs. Maybe you miss out on finding the love of your life, or don't find them until you're too old to start a family. Maybe you find yourself permanently rootless, unable to form a cohesive friend group, perhaps even skeptical that they actually exist.

Or just notice all the human shit on the street in SF and realize that you could actually live somewhere you honestly liked to be. It's that simple.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#115

Post by throwmyusername »

ponker wrote: post #79
dleslie wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but not every software engineer in California is a FAANG engineer; and even among FAANG engineers that stated salary is rather high. It's not particularly useful to make claims that one can earn enormous amounts by changing region without also acknowledging that such an opportunity is only available to a small minority.

Among FAANG engineers $285K is not high.

For L4, 285k is within ballpark. "Among FAANG engineers" is a big pool from L3 all the way to L5/L6.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#116

Post by throwmyusername »

MikeTheRocker wrote: post #86
dleslie wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.5-2x is a much narrower range, and smaller limits, than the 2-4x you posted earlier.

I'm saving over $100k USD per year after rent, food, phone, entertainment, etc. at age 24. This is impossible in Canada or most other parts of the world. My situation is not unique either, I know dozens of young engineers working at mid to high compensation companies earning around the same. Contrast this with new grads and mid level engineers in Canada earning < $75k USD and it's a no brainer to work here.

> Contrast this with new grads and mid level engineers in Canada earning You're comparing SF to the whole Canada. If you zoom in to just Vancouver and Toronto, less than 75k is definitely smaller local companies. Similar to some no-name companies in SF in general won't net you close 200k TC.

SAP new grads TC can hit $100k and this company is considered to pay the least among Salesforce (and Tableau), Microsoft, Amazon, Shopify, Splunk, etc around Vancouver.

Senior Devs (outside the list above) avg base pay in Vancouver is around 130-140k at entry (newly minted Sr. Dev) before bonuses (10-20%), RRSP matching, and stock if the company is public.

Toronto have more tech companies that pay similar avg I believe.

Definitely it's not $285k for intermediate dev (SDE2) for SF Bay but Vancouver and Toronto have established themselves as tech hotspot in Canada leaving the rest.

On the other hand, I agree with you on the point of your saving rate provided that you are young without family. With Family, I believe you have to pay extra health-insurance out of your own pocket. You might have to pay extra for education as well (or pay extra to live in better neighborhood).

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#117

Post by throwmyusername »

jayparth wrote: post #42
dleslie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said it was the beginning of their career. Particularly on the island, in Victoria, it's quite possible for an entry level position to earn only around 33,000 to 45,000 CDN.

The best jobs? Granted I don't know what "the best jobs" are in Victoria, but that seems surprising. Are there big tech offices in Victoria? If there aren't good jobs there then it's a different story.

Workday. Unless they moved out of Victoria cause it's hard to recruit.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#118

Post by twiceaday »

core-questions wrote: post #114
twiceaday wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These words would be fine if we were talking about a 20% pay difference. But we are talking about a 100-200% pay difference. And if you save half your pay in Vancouver, moving to SF increases your savings rate by 4-6x. This gets significantly better with lower savings rates. That is absolutely crazy. It would be so deeply irrational to have these options and choose Vancouver early in your career. Even just a single f…

> It would be so deeply irrational to have these options and choose Vancouver early in your career. That is, if your only consideration is financial; which is an equally irrational way to live your life. You have to consider the social cost of uprooting yourself and moving around - there is huge value in building not just a "network" but an actual group of friends, other families, etc. to form community. This of cour…

This seems to be a sensitive topic for you. Too much vitriol and straw-men. 'Only financial' is naive. Your life is heavily structured by the need to earn a living. You focus on how awful life is in SF and how nice it could be elsewhere yet you will only get to enjoy this life on evenings and weekends because you are working full time. A lot of people I know don't have time / energy for hobbies or friends outside of chores, family stuff, and decompressing from work. Most people are forced to play this game but if you have enough money you can start changing the rules. With enough money you can regularly take years off work to do... anything you want. Travel, meet people, write a book, deeply pursue hobbies, etc. With enough money you can work part time for the rest of your life and actually have the time and energy to enjoy it. And with enough money you can retire early, as early as in your 30s, to get unlimited freedom. It's not 'only financial,' it's paradigm shifting. It's 'only financial' if you are resigned to working until you are 65 or whatever and assume everybody else is too.

Re: Ask HN: Canada for tech jobs?

#119

Post by pimbrouwers »

voisin wrote: post #68
pimbrouwers wrote: post #14

Toronto without question. There are some company's in Waterloo as well, Google has a presence there for example, because of the University of Waterloo. But it is not as bustling as it was when RIM was still a big thing.

Not just a presence - it is their Canadian head office with more employees than they have in the rest of the country combined. K-W is easily 2-3x more bustling today than it was when RIM was booming. RIM sucked talent to the suburbs where it diffused outward and failed to seed any amenity concentration. That talent is all in the core now and has led to a massive resurgence including dozens of bars and restaurants and…

So glad to hear that!
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