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Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most things related to remote work, you just have to be more formal in the the approach. Our team has successfully developed several cohorts of college hires remotely. You have to give them consistent (daily, for hours) access to mentoring/senior resources via scheduled time, keep design or other higher level meetings public and make sure the juniors know they are invited to attend, and make clear to the junior…

Where do you work and are you hiring?

Microsoft, in consulting services, yes.

https://careers.microsoft.com/students/us/en/microsoft-aspir...

https://careers.microsoft.com/students/us/en/job/795772/Full...

Unfortunately it looks like we are back to requiring college hires to colocate for a year, even if their day to day teams are remote/distribute. Industry hires can live anywhere. Travel can be up to 100% depending on the project (although not right now.)

Microsoft is a huge company and not all (or even most) teams are as good at remote work as my team is, but the company as a whole is serious about the inclusive behaviors the underly my teams culture

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#112
Gossip and social interaction.

It can seem pointless but when you find out that the random co worker shares an interest/friendship with a senior figure in the company, as you witness a brief exchange. A major mistake many make is not realising who "knows of" others in the workplace, they may normally never even greet one another.

The mail/parcel facilities guy mentions he is helping set up that new set of desks or has to come in early for a major delivery. Small things but can be very insightful.

On nodding terms with the help desk person who then happier to help you when you need urgent help.

Making polite small talk waiting for a meeting or con call to start. About some minor incident, feature or event in the office you both use. Even just waffling on about the carparking situation or the local supermarket or sandwich shop you all end up at when visiting the Office.

When you send that email to the team and whoever else. But you get that brief bit of feedback (it might just be a glance and a grin) across the desk that you just won't get via remote messaging services.

Overhearing or partaking in random conversations in the office which a snippet of become useful sometimes months or years later.

Having impromptu training sessions as either as teacher or pupil because well we are all there and now is as good a time as ever.

Opportunities as the person speaking to the person who is first asked.

I got offered an internal extra role which involves little but ensures I get an additional payment monthly on top of my wages and useful on the CV. All because stood by my then managers desk . I have changed my main role several times in the 9 years or so since but still have this little extra role and the payment.

Hosting and receiving guests on behalf of others or the department as in the Office. Over the years I have made a lot of contacts this way and got involved in a number of projects and ongoing operations simply from being the stand in host or dragged along by a manager/director as their person who understands technology or simply for a second opinion..

Plenty of times sat in the office and become the resolver (even if asking those working remotely) in the eyes of those that need help. Even though credit given to others the person helped remembers your face and name.

Getting offered the extra tickets for a event the company sponsor as others pull out and well your there.

As I look back over decades of work it's nearly always meeting people in person even in passing where things happen. A quick interaction which I have forgotten may be remembered by someone who comes back into your working life decades later. Much less likely your recall those you once called or emailed in passing years later.

I work at home regularly but would be extremely concerned if unable to regularly visit my employers offices.

Never be in the office to often but been there regularly enough.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#113

I've been full time remote for several years. What I've found is that it can ever so slightly erode some people's ability to communicate clearly with each other, or be sure that they have. This leads to meetings that go on longer as people feel a need to restate and reconfirm, code reviews that go on a bit longer, some duplicated effort as people look over each others' shoulder to make sure they "got the message", an…

I've experienced very similar things. Thanks for stating this so well.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#114
post #71
post #2

The strongest argument against remote work (generally speaking, not specific to the current coronavirus) is that a company is not disciplined enough to communicate well, especially across teams. This may be the case if a significant number of business decisions are done in side conversations. You probably need some tooling such as a chat app, video conferencing software etc and a process where important business deci…

> a company is not disciplined enough to communicate well, especially across teams. This may be the case if a significant number of business decisions are done in side conversations this is a very very good point! but I don't think that being remote or not make this communication problem worse or not.

It doesn't fundamentally or categorically make it worse, it just increases the importance of the communication discipline. So, if the discipline is lacking or slips temporarily, then you're more likely to pay the cost for that than with in-person work. I agree it doesn't exacerbate the amount or lack of communication, it just increases the dependency on good communication.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#115

Remote work could be perfect for individual contributors, but it's still full of challenges for people who work on teams. There's been a lot of buzz lately about remote work. I have been working remotely since 2012; the challenges of remote work are not new to me. I work with 30+ people, and our clients are in different timezones. Our team includes full-stack developers, designers, product leads, and other support st…

I did not expect this post to end with ditching remote work.

As we work with our clients from the US, we also work closely with their employees - that part still gives the feeling of remote work for us. Most of our team members or employees live 10 to 40 minutes' drive away from each other, so it makes sense to make the change and work in the same place. We have three people who live far away, so they still work remotely with us, but we mostly put them on projects that do not require much team collaboration.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#117
My strongest argument for remote work is that I find typical offices almost completely useless for getting work done, because of interruptions, distractions, noise, required in-person activities, shared physical space, and general lack of privacy, so I end up doing most work at home anyway.

Many physical offices seem to be designed largely to enforce social pecking orders (sustaining and visibly rewarding high status while punishing low status) and/or to cram more people into fewer square feet, rather than to facilitate sustainable productivity along with physical and mental health.

Private, walled offices with closed doors can help somewhat, but most workplaces I'm familiar with seem to have switched to productivity-destroying open plan offices to save on facilities costs.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#118
post #95

It fails with respect to growing junior team members. It’s impossible for junior team members to observe the day-to-day patterns, habits and general implicit knowledge of senior team members that they would pick up (mostly not consciously) in an office simply through observation.

>> It’s impossible for junior team members to observe the day-to-day patterns

Those day-to-day patterns are changing though. There are many young people working on team projects, pursuing their interests while remotely located and never meeting their collaborators, Discord enables many of these communities so that stands a chance of becoming the new normal.

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you work and are you hiring?

Microsoft, in consulting services, yes. https://careers.microsoft.com/students/us/en/microsoft-aspir... https://careers.microsoft.com/students/us/en/job/795772/Full... Unfortunately it looks like we are back to requiring college hires to colocate for a year, even if their day to day teams are remote/distribute. Industry hires can live anywhere. Travel can be up to 100% depending on the project (although not right now…

What about jobs for non students who are self taught and working in another industry but have experience with JavaScript?

Re: Ask HN: What is your strongest argument against remote work?

#120
I need human contact. I'm fuelled off of the energy of others. What I love about my current job is my bosses drive, vision and enthusiasm. Don't get me wrong the hours are terrible. The work is closer to IT grunt work than the programming I love. But I get to solve real problems and be a key part of driving a business forward under a highly motivated boss. It's great. I don't know if that would be possible with only remote interaction.
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