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Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#111

Post by traitsnspecs »

LandR wrote: post #22
finnjohnsen2 wrote: post #20

A little side note; You could consider ClojureScript. I've worked with JavaScript many times through the years, and never felt that I got close to becoming an expert no matter what. The language it self is in the way. Browser compatibility, language weirdness (like the =, == or === mess) and there are a lot of standards around. But now a days working with ClojureScript, which settles the language problems, I get to f…

I would second this, CLojureScript is the first language that has made front end seem sane to me. Unfortunately your chances of getting a job doing ClojureScript is probably slim to none :(

I feel the same. I do full-time ClojureScript - at least a few jobs exist! If you would like a job doing ClojureScript, email me at the address in my bio.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#112

Post by adapter »

First find a problem you want solve. Then, solve it with JS. That's the way how you learn stuff. Re books and online resources IDK. JS is huge and there are many ways to do JS. If you are into functional JS look for a problem in the React space. React's ecosystem incl. redux is quite far and reference-like re functional programming. If you like types => Typescript and so on.

I also tried to learn JS from all the popular books and the problem was that most of the stuff I read in thos, I've never used in real life. And so much sophisticated stuff which books didn't teach was hidden in some lib's Github repos.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#113

Post by subhobroto »

traitsnspecs wrote: post #111
LandR wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would second this, CLojureScript is the first language that has made front end seem sane to me. Unfortunately your chances of getting a job doing ClojureScript is probably slim to none :(

I feel the same. I do full-time ClojureScript - at least a few jobs exist! If you would like a job doing ClojureScript, email me at the address in my bio.

Where's your bio?

My email is my handle at gmail.com

No obligation. I just want to connect with an individual interested in a "non-traditional" language :)

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#114

Post by subhobroto »

blunte wrote: post #85
LandR wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would second this, CLojureScript is the first language that has made front end seem sane to me. Unfortunately your chances of getting a job doing ClojureScript is probably slim to none :(

There was a time when you couldn't get a job with Linux, and you couldn't convince a company to try Linux. So you snuck it in, and in some cases the company never knew (partly because it was so much more reliable than other options that it didn't crash nor reboot). Sneak ClojureScript in. I know of one shop that trained its JavaScript engineers to use ClojureScript in two weeks. Quite frankly, if one is smart enough…

> So you snuck it in

Linux did not win the server space because admins snuck it in. It won because it was free and worked well enough compared to signing up for tens of thousands of dollars worth of lengthy contracts with SCO/HP/IBM or even Microsoft.

> Sneak ClojureScript in

I don't see this ending well.

It's great to do your side projects in your favorite language but foisting it onto your employer so they they are forced to use it is a pretty bad violation of trust.

What happens if you quit and ClojureScript programmers are hard to find at the price the employer can afford without going out of business?

I would never try and pull this off.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#115

Post by jazzyjackson »

blunte wrote: post #84
vorpalhex wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, when one is seeking to learn JavaScript, you will encounter all variations of: + Use Typescript (no, it's not the same as JS) + Use ClojureScript + Use Elm + Use Reason + Use ... If you go back about five years, you'll find this pattern also exists, except all the things people were saying to use are dead. Dead like a forgotten Egyptian pharaoh - buried and never to be seen again. Unfortunately, all th…

JavaScript is still alive not because it's worthy of being alive (compared to the four other languages you mentioned), but because it was first and became well entrenched. COBOL is still alive too... ClojureScript and Reason are superior languages, period. They will live long happy lives, too.

Betamax and HDDVD were superior too.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#116

Post by blunte »

subhobroto wrote: post #114
blunte wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when you couldn't get a job with Linux, and you couldn't convince a company to try Linux. So you snuck it in, and in some cases the company never knew (partly because it was so much more reliable than other options that it didn't crash nor reboot). Sneak ClojureScript in. I know of one shop that trained its JavaScript engineers to use ClojureScript in two weeks. Quite frankly, if one is smart enough…

> So you snuck it in Linux did not win the server space because admins snuck it in. It won because it was free and worked well enough compared to signing up for tens of thousands of dollars worth of lengthy contracts with SCO/HP/IBM or even Microsoft. > Sneak ClojureScript in I don't see this ending well. It's great to do your side projects in your favorite language but foisting it onto your employer so they they are…

Linux won because it got proven to be effective before any money had to be spent. The risk of trying it out was very low. And it ran well on old or low spec hardware, which Windows did not run (well) on. So we snuck Linux in by installing it on old puny PCs, setup some useful network services, and let it do its job well for months. Then we would casually mention to management what we did.

Many companies would not or because of SLAs _could not_ use free Linux. They would pay RedHat or Suse fees that included support/maintenance. Yes, it was still usually cheaper than Window licenses, but the price was not really the point.

Now about sneaking languages, platforms, and stacks in... Java was once too risky and unknown to be used in place of C/C++, but we snuck that in and proved it was up to task. Python... hah, Python was a toy "scripting language". No self-respecting CIO would approve of building company products in Python. Ruby? Rails? Surely not, those were also free, unknown, unproven technologies (which ironically were trying to supplant Java-based systems... that same Java which was once too risky).

PosgreSQL or MySQL? No way, that's not reliable for production. Of course it is, and it got snuck into companies whose engineers despised Oracle and SQL Server (not because MSSQL sucked, but because it only ran on Windows).

You can pick any modern best of breed tool, and I can point in history when that tool had to be snuck in to prove itself and gain acceptance.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#117

Post by blunte »

LandR wrote: post #91
blunte wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when you couldn't get a job with Linux, and you couldn't convince a company to try Linux. So you snuck it in, and in some cases the company never knew (partly because it was so much more reliable than other options that it didn't crash nor reboot). Sneak ClojureScript in. I know of one shop that trained its JavaScript engineers to use ClojureScript in two weeks. Quite frankly, if one is smart enough…

I'm a bit tempted to do something like this. We have an old creaky app which I'm tempted to rewrite in ClojureScript in my own time and then show them it. Worst case scenario they say it's great, now can we please rewrite it in JS. Best case scenario I get something in Clojure / CLJS into our system. Either way I'd probably learn a lot just from the project. And I kinda need a new side project at the minute.

I would go for it. As you say, it will be a valuable learning experience. And writing anything the second time (even if switching languages) tends to be much easier than the first time since the problem is more known. So you lose not much time if you ultimately throw ClojureScript away in favor of something else.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#118

Post by subhobroto »

blunte wrote: post #116
subhobroto wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you snuck it in Linux did not win the server space because admins snuck it in. It won because it was free and worked well enough compared to signing up for tens of thousands of dollars worth of lengthy contracts with SCO/HP/IBM or even Microsoft. > Sneak ClojureScript in I don't see this ending well. It's great to do your side projects in your favorite language but foisting it onto your employer so they they are…

Linux won because it got proven to be effective before any money had to be spent. The risk of trying it out was very low. And it ran well on old or low spec hardware, which Windows did not run (well) on. So we snuck Linux in by installing it on old puny PCs, setup some useful network services, and let it do its job well for months. Then we would casually mention to management what we did. Many companies would not or…

> You can pick any modern best of breed tool, and I can point in history when that tool had to be snuck in to prove itself and gain acceptance.

I don't like the idea of "snuck in".

Working with management and having buy in that there's going to be a risk involved in taking something up that's new and unknown is OK.

That way we have a plan and action in place if things go other than expected.

That is exactly why I left a BIG5 firm and now work at startups because I can run these by the CEO and have a discussion.

The place where I work does not exist for my amusement.

Many people's livelihood including those of close friends and their families depend on the decisions I make.

If I am at a VC funded startup I am playing with the retirement of millions of people.

I owe it to them to be in the know of any risky decisions I take that I judge to be risky enough to affect them negatively.

Anything that's new and relatively unknown is risky.

That does not mean we don't try it.

It does mean we need to have a plan and action in place if things go other than expected.

Thats just good engineering and business because people depend on me.

Otherwise it's just a hobby and pastime.

Re: Ask HN: How do I learn JavaScript?

#119

Post by jacobpake »

Jefro118 wrote: post #16

Read the You Don't Know JS series [0] - this tackles much of what people with mediocre proficiency overlook. To go beyond that you would probably want to dive deep in to the ECMAScript specs [1] to really master the language. I don't think it will be that hard, just a slog. [0] - https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS [1] - https://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ec...

I’ve read this series twice whilst learning Javascript, once towards the start and again more recently. As others are saying, the lessons had a much greater impact after having some proper experience with the language.

The author, Kyle Simpson, has some really good video courses available online as well. He goes further in depth about some of the more interesting topics in YDKJS and is really able to sell some of his patterns.

Again, Kyle’s material was better digested after some practical experience with the language.

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