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Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

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Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#111

Post by jmccorm »

Dowwie wrote: post #94

I think you have no idea how privileged you are for having the opportunity to enter the market with your background and a computer science degree in three years. I interned during summers during university starting around 2000. The dot com bubble had burst before I even graduated. The party was over. Managerialism was in full force. IT Managers at what was then a Fortune-10 financial powerhouse were going on an on ab…

It's always nice to find a reply on HN that captures so much of what you wanted to say. I came to that same perspective from a non-financial Fortune 50. After Y2K was when a very good chunk of those who got CS degrees for all the wrong reasons (didn't have the raw talent or personal interest) got weeded out. I've seen the same thing happen in other industries with a bust/boom, such as petroleum.

Anyhow, OP doesn't sound like someone who's into CS for all the wrong reasons. I personally wouldn't get focused on FAANG as the next step, but if they're already going to an elite university, resume building with FAANG seems reasonable enough.

Above all, having a real interest in what you're doing is one of the greatest multipliers to your efforts... and your enjoyment.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#112

Post by torgian »

metanoia wrote: post #58
jl2718 wrote: post #28

I was a kid programmer and it sounded crazy to spend college learning to code. I studied anything and everything else. More interesting, but not a good resume-building strategy.

Modified for myself: I was a kid programmer and my parents thought it sounded crazy to spend college learning to code. I studied pre-med but didn't go to med school. This was in 1998 for me, and at that age I didn't know how to push back on my parents. Good 'ol Asian parents didn't know anything out of the big 3 (Doctor, Lawyer, [Licensed] Engineer). Still going to therapy for that. I am now in a software engineering…

Similar boat here; not Asian, but I was in the military, and got into CS when I was 30; got a remote gig at 36. I get paid far, far less than others, but I also happen to live in a low cost of living country, so it (kinda?) evens out.

I would like to get paid more money, and I think I could look for higher paying work at this point. However,I actually do like the company I work for, and it's fairly low stress. I also have enough time to work side projects and start on my Masters (in Geoinformatics, not CS)

And yeah. I feel you on the age apprehension. I think it would be much harder for me to find a software gig back in the States now just due to my age.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#113

Post by HashHishBang »

d-d wrote: post #91

Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best. IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin u…

This isn't just unpopular, it's ignorantly wrong. I've done blue collar work and CS work. Also the whole romanticizing of busting one's ass pisses me off to no end.

> IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times.

This is all but objectively false for journeyman level. As the new guy on site you better believe you aren't taking it easy. Hauling shingles, hauling siding, digging ditches, doing whatever the older guys don't/physically can't do anymore. Wanna know why they can't do it anymore? Because that's what they spent their 20s doing.

Sure when you get home you're not thinking about your trade, most of the time, but it's not like you're free and clear. You didn't just spend 8 hours sitting in a chair thinking about problems. You just spent 8 hours on your feet doing work. Now after work you're covered in dirty/sweat/paint/etc. Gotta clean up before you can relax. Granted you don't have to study the new JS framework in vogue, but then again neither do I. Though on the flip side my job doesn't leave me worn out physically and unable to enjoy free time.

>The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin up new hires which makes everyone highly expendable; not to mention that there are now millions of unwashed masses happy to accept lower wages just for their chance.

I... what? Are you suggesting knowledge work is somehow easier to teach to people than a trade? That the tens of thousands of home-repair, car repair, plumbing, siding, painting, etc, etc videos for blue collar work don't exist? That somehow these are inaccessible to the aforementioned 'unwashed masses'?

> There was a HN post a while back where some guy was begging to pay for a code job. What does that tell you?

That there was an outlier?

> Software workers are also now pitted against a global market with outsourcing and programs like H-1B which has raised the bar by increasing the pool of highly educated candidates and people who commit resume fraud.

This is literally the "they're taking our jobs" line with different vocabulary. And based on what OP says about their credentials most blue collar work wouldn't take them due to over qualification.

> They're likely also more willing to work long hours for less pay just to be in the US. Software wages have also stagnated for ten years.

Whee dog whistles. I hate everything about this post.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#114

Post by bergerjac »

d-d wrote: post #91

Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best. IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin u…

> Software wages have also stagnated for ten years.

Where did you get that data?

> everyone [is] highly expendable

even the best of the best? Anyone, in any industry, who fails to adjust to The Market, will be expended, because their production value drops below break-even. Toys "R" Us went bankrupt because parents can be riding the elevator, sitting on the john... and buy the exact toy their child wants...

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#115

Post by torgian »

uwuhn wrote: post #105
standardUser wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Soon everyone in every role/industry will have rudimentary programming skills" I'm completely baffled as to where all of today's workers in their 20's, 30's and 40's, almost none of whom have any programming skills whatsoever, are going to learn programming skills in this "soon" timeframe.

Americans won't, but immigrants will.

Immigrants who study CS, yes. I live and been to countries where these immigrants come from. I don't think Americans would have anything to worry about if they stay competitive and take time to specialize.

Your regular coding guys might get burnt after the next recession though.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#116

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghostpepper wrote: post #108
0xffff2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether this is true or not, it's distinctly unhelpful for a high school student trying to pick a college major.

I interpreted this comment as saying that CS will always be a useful skill and will never be saturated so therefore pick CS as your major if you are passionate about it, without a fear that it will be saturated

The CS market has definitely been saturated over the years, it has booms and busts just like any other hot field. The 80s in particular were very hard on programmers, not to mention the years after the dot com bust. Long term it seems fine, but just beware it can be a riskier if more rewarding choice.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#117

Post by seanmcdirmid »

codingslave wrote: post #109
d-d wrote: post #91

Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best. IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin u…

This is my opinion exactly. Programming is great if you are in the top 1% maybe 2%, you can make 400k - 800k as just a senior engineer. Everyone else is fighting to keep their knowledge base current, working for companies that do not value them, etc. Basically if you cant pass hard algorithms interviews with a bit of study, you should leave the field and do something else.

Not even hard algorithms, you just have to study leetcode problems these days. There is a website that aggregates them and only so many problems people can think of, they can easily be prepped even by a bad programmer.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#118

Post by pnathan »

timothycrosley wrote: post #72
pnathan wrote: post #65

I think it'll be pretty good career until some kind of tipping point is hit. My suggestion is to become excellent at CS, get an internship, then specialize in a fascinating area of forward-looking work (don't study COBOL. :) ). also if you love coding, keep on keeping on. if you wind up making average income, that's ok .

It's funny you say this. I've always had a suspicision that every budding programmer I encounter studies forward looking things, and if a young person did study something ancient like COBOL, they'd probably have great job security and stand out for the few companies that need that kind of developer.

Maybe.

But, you'd have to be a certain kind of person. And, if you are, that is totally cool. Most programmers I encounter thirst for the New Thing.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#119

Post by CobrastanJorji »

d-d wrote: post #91

Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best. IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin u…

> IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and--

Your opinion is wrong. Programming gigs, especially at the giant tech companies, are way, way easier than blue collar work. Blue collar work, especially skilled trade work, is a fine career option, but not because it's easy.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#120

Post by lucb1e »

d-d wrote: post #91

Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best. IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin u…

> IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable

Did you ever do blue collar work as well as software engineering? Because I have no idea in which version of this world physical labor is preferable over a chill 9-5 desk job that typically comes with a higher salary. Unless free medical issues is your thing, then physical labor is absolutely the way to go.

I did hear some horror stories of programming jobs in Spain where someone got unlucky with their employers, maybe this is based on one or two of such stories or experiences? I'm sure there are also good workplaces in blue collar, even if they're few and far between, you might have gotten unlucky in software development and lucky in blue collar.

I'm honestly wondering if your comment is part of an experiment with whether a thoughtful-sounding but incorrect comment, starting with a disclaimer like "unpopular opinion" to make it sound like an opinion rather than a statement, can be accepted by the community as correct.

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