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Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

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Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#111

Post by djhworld »

bpourriahi wrote: post #19
olalonde wrote: post #13

Generalization ahead Java is mostly snubbed in web startup land and associated with boring corporate work. More discussion here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1378815

There is a good chance that the more 'boring corporate' people tend to keep to themselves more. I don't imagine serious startups are always glaring things in your face about the technologies they use, which comes off as 'web startup land' to people who are willing to read that kind of stuff. (not that I'm any different) I bet there's a whole other demographic of serious business people who are busy getting things don…

There's a website out there called InfoQ, I think that's where all the enterprise folk hide

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#112

Post by djhworld »

buro9 wrote: post #69

4) Hiring is a slog as most Java people you come across will only know the "Enterprise" way of doing something and seem oblivious to any of the web frameworks out there or any pragmatic and quick solution to something that they already know an "Enterprise" solution for.

That's hardly their fault though is it? Most enterprise shops won't use the latest and greatest technology because it's 'unknown', unproven' and so on. Heck, a lot of places haven't even bothered upgrading from java 1.4.2

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#113

Post by iwr »

gmosx wrote: post #58

I used Java until 2002, then used Ruby until 2009, then switched to Javascript (server side). 3 months ago I decided to switch back to Java and I really feel I lost a decade with experiments. It turns out, I am really a static-typing ...type after all. With utilities like Spring Roo, frameworks like Jersey (JAX-RS), IDEs like Eclipse and platforms like GAE, Java can be really productive.

What did you use for server-side JS? It's not a common option for app development.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#114

Post by jwn »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #94
Egregore wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is play framework, which is very good and comparable to RoR.

We're a Java house and just launched http://www.jigsawbox.com using the Play Framework ( http://www.playframework.org/ ). Play is seriously, seriously good. We used to build on top of a fairly heavy but powerful stack of Spring, Hibernate and Struts2/Wicket (depending on the app). Although there's a lot of power there there's also a lot of tangled XML and you need to do a fair amount of gymnastics to get through it a…

I'm an experienced Java developer, but a bit of a novice when it comes to webapps on Java. I've tried Java EE, Spring, Hibernate, etc and hated all of them with a passion. For writing simple apps it was a mountain of configuration and framework.

I've got to agree that Play is a breath of fresh air. It doesn't hide/automate as much as RoR, which I appreciate. It's really easy to get going with and it's made writing web apps feel quite natural.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#115

Post by Zak »

nraynaud wrote: post #89

I did my lonely venture in java. I think the main problem of java for startups is that it's uncool. They're trying to rationalize, but they are wrong, you avoid wearing a tie to express that you're not a number, I don't know why you wouldn't avoid java as a statement that you're not an IBM consultant. When I started my project, I tried ruby, but after 2 months of fighting, I just went back to java. But somehow I'm gi…

You seem to be implying that the default is to wear a tie and use Java. When I decide what clothes to put on in the morning, I don't even think about whether I want to wear a tie. I would only think about wearing a tie under exceptional circumstances. Similarly, when I start a new project, the thought of using Java has only entered my mind once: when an applet seemed like the only solution to the problem.

I think we see a lot of Ruby and Python in startups lately because they're a good blend of productive and well-known.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#116

Post by Tichy »

angerman wrote: post #80
gst wrote: post #49

IMO there is neither lack of hosting support (just use EC2 or a vserver) nor any serious performance issues. I'm a long term Python developer (since the 1.5.2 days). I've used a lot of different languages so far (from C to Haskell), and I've always avoided Java in the past (at the beginning because it was slow, later because everyone was telling me how bloated it is). But using Java EE (!) instead of Python for a pro…

"It just works - exactly as documented." -- I guess that's the one thing that Java is really good at. I would even say you could go as far as saying it one end of the spectrum. Where you have frontend web apps (html/js/css) on a variety of platforms[1] on the one end and the big corporate backed languages and frameworks on the other end. [1]: This can be a real pita. Though it's being mitigated more and more by addin…

"It just works" might be huge, though. After > 10 years I hate Java with a passion, yet I still can not say with confidence that coding in other, dynamically typed languages is really better.

Usually the solution in the dynamic language is far more elegant and satisfying than the Java version, but there might have been a lot more trial and error involved in arriving at the solution in the dynamic language.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#118

Post by badmash69 »

Another perspective is that Salary and competition for Java programmers are way beyond affordable for most start ups who have not made it big.

Java is widely used in Financial, Insurance sectors. (There are several others as well but I speak of these from personal experience) I can offer up to $95k for a top level Java programmer. I do not think start up salaries can go that high. Of course there are no big stock options pay day like in a start-up but it is easy to see why some programmers would rather work in a bank than at your start up.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#119

Post by acdha »

gst wrote: post #49

IMO there is neither lack of hosting support (just use EC2 or a vserver) nor any serious performance issues. I'm a long term Python developer (since the 1.5.2 days). I've used a lot of different languages so far (from C to Haskell), and I've always avoided Java in the past (at the beginning because it was slow, later because everyone was telling me how bloated it is). But using Java EE (!) instead of Python for a pro…

My first reaction: your Django app was deployed / configured wrong and you should have tried …

More correct, second reaction: deploying Java apps can be more enterprisey (depending on how much of the J2EE stack you're laboring under) but at least has well-known production-quality deployment options. This is an area where the community could use some serious consolidation.

Re: Ask HN: Any web startups using Java?

#120

Post by haploid »

thecombjelly wrote: post #53

It is not performance or hosting concerns. Java performs good enough and you can host it on things like EC2. The problem is that web startups tend to want to develop things quickly and be able to pivot quickly and easily. Java is not best at those things. I know Java and worked with it for years. I do all of my startup coding in Lisp. Java forces you to do a lot of things that may make your code more reliable and eas…

I've heard this "more productive" refrain countless times, but I have yet to see it in reality. I would love to be made aware of how exactly Java doesn't allow one to pivot easily.

That said, we have been at it for 5 years now, so it would be a stretch to call us a startup, but we use Java for 90% of our platform codebase, with Ruby acting as a glue.

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