"I don't want you speaking at difficult to get in industry events."
"That's interesting. Why would you say that?"
Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
111–120 of 150 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#112My experience is in the finance industry, so it may be different for you, but this is what I've observed throughout various jobs:
Your manager...
- prioritises themselves over you (obviously!)
- is probably not the best leader, and can't deal with their authority being challenged
- probably doesn't know what's best for you
- will sabotage your prospects from time to time (even if it doesn't provide them with immediate benefit)
- probably sees you as a threat, especially if you're good at what you do
- will try and control everything you do at work (micro-management), and perhaps even outside it
- will forget things you've discussed and agreed in the past
- will try and ensure you never sense that the above are true
You should...
- send regular descriptive, emails that make your manager aware of what you're up to and what you've discussed/mutually agreed. The more stuff in writing, the better. This is to CYA (cover your ass). Also, it's an evidence of "work" (stupid, I know, but it's how it is).
- be aware of toxic patterns in your manager's behaviour. E.g. giving you pointless work, stopping you from taking a holiday at a particular time for no good reason etc. Once that starts, it's usually a downward spiral, and may signal a time to move on.
- look out for jealously. If you start to outperform your manager, they may get jealous, and that's bad for you. I think this may have something to do with you not speaking at the event, but I leave that for you to judge.
- mingle and build relationships with other senior managers at your firm. Eventually you'll want to take the next step, perhaps to escape the clutches of your current manager if the relationship has soured.
- try not to be too smart. Back down, even when your manager is wrong, or risk ruining the relationship. It's sad, but most managers don't take well to being challenged, even if your tone and intentions are good.
Having a thick skin, as you mentioned, is necessary for the above. I remember joining an investment bank as young whipper-snapper quant, trying my best to show how great I was at every task. Trust me, it did not go down well! After a few job changes, I decided to dumb it down and toe the line. Before I knew it, I started to get promoted to some rather senior positions, just by doing the basics and some long-ish hours! The key was ensuring that you're not perceived as a threat, while ensuring everyone around you is fully aware of your contributions.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#113Unless you have a really good job I'd probably give the talk(s) anyways and see if you can get away with it.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#114If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…
This is gold and should be treated as such. Following these steps can make your work life very easy.
However, if you really feel like you are right and your boss is wrong then I have some machiavellian advice for the workplace.
1. No one will give you anything because you just asked nicely.
2. Everyone is out for themselves, PERIOD.
If you want more money, a new chair, better tools you have to create some pressure for your boss that can be eliviated by them giving you the thing you want. Example, you don't ask for more money, you make yourself semi-indespensible and then get another offer and say you're leaving. The same can be made of any situation.
The main idea behind this is that there has to be some benefit for your boss other than making you happy. If he can't see the benefit, create a situation who's solution is the outcome you want to see.
DISCLAIMER: I work with people like this, it's game of thrones level kool aid drinking. Know that you will make your life much more difficult and stressful, but it will work.
So either do what the other guy said and be nice, build a genuine relationship with your boss where they TRUST you and your judgement. Or be prepared to go to war!
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#115One thing I've learned is that managers hate surprises, and hate making decisions in front of an audience. Think about how it feels to have your idea (going to the conference) vetoed. Their idea (approving your attendance) could get vetoed too. The easiest thing to do with any unexpected idea is to quash it.
Perhaps a way to deal with a situation like the conference, is to get them involved early. Like, before you apply for it: "Hey, boss, there's this conference that I think would be beneficial for us. We'll learn a lot and if I give a talk, it will be prestigious for the business. It's a long shot, but can I apply for it?"
Also, in all conversations with your boss, work on your mutual enthusiasm for your career development. At the very least, it's unlikely they will say to your face that they don't support your career.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#116If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…
> If you've ever said "this isn't my job" then you will have only an adversarial relationship.
I say that all the time to other managers and occasionally to my direct manager.
I'm the only software engineer on staff and we have a pisspoor IT provider, if it's windows I don't touch it because if I do I'll 'own' it and I'm busy enough.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#1171 loyalty Too often I experience employees or co-worker to think they have better ideas or should be opposing to their manager. Managing happens often under uncertainty. Making it for your boss easier to know you are there to take on ups and downs will almost often grant loyalty in return. On this job and future opportunities as well.
After 15 years IT I see that managing bad bosses makes sense. Bad bosses, with their bad ideas, are usually fired or resign at some stage, the good ones stay.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#118I think a lot of advice here implicitly assumes the following: 1: You are invested in the company in a serious way. 2: Your company is invested in you and wishes the best for you. However, I think those are quite optimistic assumptions. There's a inherent tension between what you want and what the company wants. The company wants to invest into you the minimum required to both keeping you as an employee as well as al…
> you need to find out what your manager's motivation is from keeping you from such events and based on that formulate a strategy for dealing with him/her. That's a pretty adverserial approach. Why not understand the manager's motivation and then work with him/her? The "adverserial-ness" is also apperant in the possible causes you raised for the manager's decision (he's a company man / he's taking advantage of the fa…
The manager just pissed on the employee from a great height. It's the manager's job to explain exactly why this was reasonable (and it probably wasn't).
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#119Your question is not about "managing your manager." This is about your manager trying to sabotage your career. Give the talks, quit if you have to. You don't need a manager who is not your advocate. I say this as someone responsible for many more management functions in tech than a technical tasks now. If your manager doesn't help you, tell HIS manager and be open: you don't need to accept this. Bad management is a p…
I agree that you should seek out a manager that wants to help you advance in your career, but you don't have enough context to judge the manager in this particular case. Perhaps OP is spending too much time speaking at conferences and not hitting his other agreed objectives. Perhaps there is a critical project launch that OP is leading during the timeframe of the conference and it's just not feasible in this isolated instance. Etc.
Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
OP isn't perfectly unambiguous on the subject, but it's an industry conference, and since asking the manager is a thing, I think it's fair to assume that it's a work conference and that the manager actually has a legitimate say in this - participants in industry conferences are typically identified as representing their company.
Exactly my thoughts. If this to be done during normal work hours when this person would normally be in the office and working (almost certainly the case), then the manager would definitely need to approve this, especially since there is usually a cost associated with attending. If the employee is willing to pay themselves, that still leaves the issue of that time being utilized for non-approved activity during work h…
Exactly. And I think it's safe to stop after the first statement. OP made no mention of offering to go on their own time and dime, and being rejected.