Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#111

Post by bad_user » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:28 PM UTC

seltzered wrote: post #105

MetricMike wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collaboration with Mono on .NET would be the "killer" news for me. With Java looking increasingly shaky, it'd be nice to have a second "write-once, run-everywhere" paradigm. While this may not end up being the greatest of reasons, a lot of my classmates shy away from .NET languages/MSFT technologies because they're more difficult to develop in Linux. Getting rid of that complaint would be super awesome.

It'd be nice if this effort included some SL/WPF support as well. Java still has swing and (gulp) JavaFX, and last I checked they run on any OS. As of now, I'm starting to feel like one has to write in flex if they want a desktop app with good UX to run everywhere.

Different OSes use different UX paradigms.

With Swing you end up with a common denominator, which really sucks and you're better off deploying a web app with a local server and a stripped down Firefox.

Or you could do what the big boys do, share the business logic on all platforms, but implement the UI using native APIs.

Here's a sample: http://www.skybound.ca/ The OS X client is implemented with Mono + MonoMac (Cocoa bindings).

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#112

Post by seltzered » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:29 PM UTC

roadnottaken wrote: post #74

rakkhi wrote: post #5

Interesting if real. Ok lets go for benefit of the doubt, starting with the highest priority items: Mobile technology - The Windows phone 7 will not succeed. Sure you will sell a few phones but for the marketing and sheer executive brainspend on this you will not get a profitable return within 5 years. I had a good debate on Quora about what sucess looks like for Microsoft and I don't think this is realistically achi…

The desktop is NOT DEAD. All those other devices are primarily for consuming media -- which is great. But I'm still using a desktop with a keyboard if I want to do any, y'know, work. I spend ~8-12 hours a day on a desktop and everyone else I know with any kind of office-job does too. And that's a lot of people. Tablets/console-games aren't going to change this any time soon.

I think a tablet with a) a non-glossy outdoor e-ink-like screen b) top-notch software to support note-taking and diagram-creation

will complement laptops much better than they do now.

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#113

Post by sandipagr » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:31 PM UTC

roadnottaken wrote: post #77

narag wrote: post #68

A modest request: please, with each version don't make it more and more difficult to make the Windows explorer behave as in Windows 95. I mean having a folder tree and detailed view. Some people still work a lot with files and folders "the old way". Bonus points for not moving the configuration screens around. Things that have changed with explorer: less space for content, caused by adding not-so-useful toolbars, fol…

GREAT point. On a fresh Win7 install it takes like 5 clicks to get to 'My Documents', with all the favorites and libraries etc. Do I really need to click past "My Music" folder every time I want to open a file? SIMPLIFY. In case you missed it: SIMPLIFY.

you can add My Documents to favorites maybe making it 1 click?

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#114

Post by matrix » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:31 PM UTC

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #26

An understanding that if you're asking us for ideas like this, that if you don't already know what's wrong despite everything that's been written and everything your developers could tell you, you're in deep trouble? More constructively, I'd like to see Microsoft taking more risks and leading more. Kinnect and XBox Live are good examples of Microsoft being first in or coming up with the best thing out there. You coul…

Excellent observations. I agree that a major strategic shift is required and that means thinking long and hard about their reliance on owning the Windows platform as their primary competitive advantage.

If I were Microsoft, I would port .Net to other OSs, and aim to own the VM space. With the JVM in Oracle's hands now, there's an opportunity for a new player to take the lead. It's corporate infrastructure, it's a platform play, and it's developer focused, something they're historically good at. As a bonus, it helps them get products like SQL Server on more platforms, and into more customer's hands.

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#115

Post by hasenj » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:32 PM UTC

MetricMike wrote: post #64

bad_user wrote: post #56

I would like Microsoft's Developer Division to start supporting Linux more ... Windows servers are too expensive for me making scale-out strategies a PITA and IMHO technically inferior to Linux from a startup perspective. Biztalk/Webspark are nice initiatives, but not enough. And I would totally shell out the cash for a MSDN subscription / Visual Studio if I could choose Linux for deployment. Better yet, collaborate…

Collaboration with Mono on .NET would be the "killer" news for me. With Java looking increasingly shaky, it'd be nice to have a second "write-once, run-everywhere" paradigm. While this may not end up being the greatest of reasons, a lot of my classmates shy away from .NET languages/MSFT technologies because they're more difficult to develop in Linux. Getting rid of that complaint would be super awesome.

> it'd be nice to have a second "write-once, run-everywhere" paradigm.

You can use python or ruby.

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#116

Post by jpr » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:33 PM UTC

motters wrote: post #65

At this point probably the smartest thing which Microsoft could do would be to adopt some Linux distro (perhaps OpenSuSE, which they already have some relationship with) and base all of their future development on top of it. At a stroke this would eliminate many of their security and malware problems, dramatically improving the user experience. Windows remains prevalent, but at present as a software developer I'm not…

Oh my FSM please no! That would remove the one and only mainstreamish OS that isn't an unix-clone from the market, leaving the computing world permanently crippled. Why do people want that sort of monoculture?

Also, if you seriously think user experience is better on Linux, I wonder have you used a modern Windows lately?

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#117

Post by mkilling » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:34 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #35

petewailes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide examples of things you like/don't like in OSX and XP?

OS X: can't deal with the Finder. I frequently don't know how to navigate to an upper directory, for example. I have troubles with the task bar, too (sometimes somehow I can't drag stuff into applications). I miss the show desktop button. I don't like that Apps stay open when I press "X" and I have to close them all with CMD+Q instead. Cut+Paste does not exist. It's all little things, but they add up. Windows 7: now…

"Show desktop" is the button in the lower right corner. Or just use Windows+D

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#118

Post by sandipagr » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:35 PM UTC

Fire your marketing department. Like seriously, I mean it.

1. What's up with the 2 page long name of each products? Windows Live Security Essentials 2. What's up with bazillion version of each OS? 3. What's up with all the ads? Windows 7 launch party with that crappy video, seriously? Is that the best you came with?

Zune was a good product and it was killed because of the marketing strategy. I guess these are problems when you get big and have 100k employee.

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#119

Post by fmw » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:36 PM UTC

As someone that is completely out of touch with the Microsoft ecosystem that is a very hard question. The main reason for that is I'm simply not the target audience for their flag ship products, but I also want to avoid getting locked into a platform that depends on the whim of a company with vastly different interests from my own. For the same reason I'm increasingly moving away from Apple products. So it would be a bad business decision for Microsoft to change the way their software works for the small minority of users like me.

That being said, some of Microsofts products are very solid on a technical level and much better documented than their open source counterparts. My impression of .NET, for example, is very positive, although limited to Mono. It seems like they are moving in the right direction with IE as well and I've heard good things about MSSQL (or whatever it is called these days). They got a lot of credibility for IronPython and IronRuby, too. What happened to IronRuby ruins that good will, though.

The problem is that I'm afraid to touch "the good parts" that come out of Microsoft for anything beyond playful experimentation. In my opinion, that is a wasted opportunity. With Oracle ruining everything Sun built Microsoft has a great opportunity to eat market share away from Java. Why aren't they donating the IP related to .NET to the Apache Foundation, for example? That would make .NET a viable platform for me (practically, not necessarily technically). Developers used to be forced to work with Microsoft because that was were the market was, but with modern browser technology we don't need them anymore. So the next best thing they can do is make us willing to work with technologies like .NET.

One more thing. Ten years ago, when I permanently left their platform, my opinion of Microsoft was bordering on hate. These days I see them, and Google, as one of the more reliable big tech companies, miles ahead of Apple and Oracle. Maybe that has something to do with not being directly exposed to Windows anymore, but I do get the impression that their reputation is improving.

P.S. Theoretically, there are a lot of things I would love to see from Microsoft, like donating technologies like DirectX to the Apache Foundation so it would be easier to run games on GNU/Linux or making Windows a thin layer on top of BSD, but I don't realistically expect them to do anything like that.

Re: Ask HN: What do you want to tell Microsoft?

#120

Post by achompas » Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 1:37 PM UTC

rakkhi wrote: post #5

Interesting if real. Ok lets go for benefit of the doubt, starting with the highest priority items: Mobile technology - The Windows phone 7 will not succeed. Sure you will sell a few phones but for the marketing and sheer executive brainspend on this you will not get a profitable return within 5 years. I had a good debate on Quora about what sucess looks like for Microsoft and I don't think this is realistically achi…

So the best decision would be to give up on the OS and focus on applications such as MS Office and XBOX game centre for iOS and Android devices. Alternatively buy RIM...

This is not a viable "growth strategy." MS has worked on these boring enterprise products for 15 years already, and buying RIM and developing Office is more of the same. I can't foresee any new tech coming from these boring strategies.

MS's ceiling for mobile market share is 2nd place. This isn't a bad outcome, but to accomplish this MS needs to keep WP7 locked down (so it can compete with the carrier-garbage versions of Android we see now). Who knows? I don't think they're out to "win" consumer mobile; they want to participate in it, pick up good market share, and try to develop brand synergy.

Anyway, MS is an enterprise company at their core, so their performance in consumer mobile isn't a big deal. They know enterprise, so they should stick to what they know. Why not develop custom tablet software for enterprises? Or even new computing (or augmented humanity) devices for businesses/gov't?

The tech space is changing rapidly, and MS could be there to support that change with light and nimble tech. But, given what we know about MS and Danger, they're very far away from developing light and nimble tech. Culture must change at MS.