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Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

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Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being clear and understandable not an important professional capability? If not, then why does the interview require it?

> A: Please take a seat. As you know, we hired you because you did great on your interview. But we recently noticed that you speak with an Indian accent. Did you attempted to hide your accent during the interview? > B: Uh, maybe a little? I've been taking accent reduction classes and learned to speak without one, but can't keep it up 24/7. > A: Thanks for your honestly. Unfortunately we'll have to let you go. Please…

I don't know man. I can see "acting classes" under hobbies on your CV not as a bad thing.

I believe employers might ask about it. if you tell them you are bettering your communications skills. It can only be a plus? Because this guys is using his spare time to better himself, instead of watching firefly over and over again in hope they will continue the series.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#112

What are you willing to sacrifice? I can give you an answer, but you won't like it. As an Indian man you'll be discriminated against. Period. Lots of empirical proof for that, not just job wise but in lots of other cases (dating, etc). While folks here will give you lots of tips on the professional side, here are a few actionable things you can do to minimize racial bias: - Change your name to an americanized version…

No offence, some of this is dubious and degrading advice at best. Don't mean to be mean below in deconstructing the above, only clear.

Current heritage CEO of Google and Microsoft prove some things.

You don't choose things like the family you're born into or the colour of your skin. It's humiliating to be treated in a way to try to cover it up like you made a mistake of choosing those things.

Americanized name - If people can learn yoga and chai latte, I'm pretty sure it's not due to a lack of capability to give someone the dignity of learning their name. This isn't the 1970's. People should be free to choose their name, not adjust it for what someone might think.

Cultural norms - I do think there is benefit from being able to navigate and work in a lot of environments and groups. But doing it solely to fit in and be accepted may be a form of colonialism that creates the very insecurities generationally you're trying to type away in a few sentences. The more you learn about other cultures and people, the richer you get.

Accent - Being born and raised in North America, I get to speak perfect english. Sadly, sometimes salespeople in a store won't greet me unless I say hi first. Guess who smiles and always says hi first and hopes future generations might not have to.

I hope some of the below helps, I have had a few major transitions in my career and the things that helped to move to the next step included:

ABOVE ALL - Continue becoming well rounded for yourself, not others. People's own insecurities (including those who are hiring) will naturally want to be around someone who's calm, self-assured, and not phony. If you are swimming around a lot of phonies and not connecting with that culture, it's OK.

1) Always add value. First. - Most people are takers. Don't be one. Won't work if you're not a giver. Learn to be nice, and smart and give freely to good situations and things. The karma builds up and comes back. Whether or not one should need to, generating goodwill seems to help. Finding how to add value and help people achieve what they are doing will always come back. This is the most important thing I practice every single day. Give a shit about others and some, eventually will give a shit back. Don't worry about the one's who don't or the inefficiency of it all.

2) Self-Confidence - Know people who won't want to accept you for any reason will find a reason. Lazy people will find convenient reasons. People have their own hangups. There is a big difference between thinking less about yourself vs thinking less of yourself.

3) Self-directed - embrace your proud geek culture and be your own person learning and pursuing the things that interest you. It transfers to other areas of your life.

4) Work ethic - There will always be some you come across who don't like that you work harder than them, or less than them. Ignore them all.

5) 8x - I was told by a mentor that shared some good math: It's not uncommon to have to be twice as good to get half the respect, four times as good to be treated as an equal, and eight times as good so you can't be ignored. It's up to the individual, I guess to see that they end up winning by becoming. You will have to work hard anyways.

6) Be a creator - whatever you create, become good at sharing it online. What you built or have done in the last 2 years is the most relevant things folks will look at. Curate and keep it active and healthy with a good mix of the things that interest you and what you build when no one's looking

7) Out Educate - Whatever you're good at, give the knowledge away. The hard part is doing it. People who interview well but turn out to be garbage are bullshitters will not appreciate it. Companies who get burnt by the wrong hire will remember it. When I meet someone for some work together, I always give them the knowledge I have for free.

8) Be visible - build and share things to demonstrate capability of your work. Don't show off. It will introduce you to people, build your network, and on that basis introduce you to opportunities that are often created. Don't chase social status, but be aware that social proof

9) Communication - I won't tell you to get rid of your accent. But do ensure you know how to communicate extremely clearly when neccesary. If I went to another country, and success might be enhanced by how well I commit myself to being able to communicate flawlessly in that language, I might see that as a tool, but not a flaw or shortcoming in myself.

10) Dating - is for most, largely a blind emotional baggage collection exercise of expecting a complete stranger coming into your life to supplant and rise to the highest relationship in your life. If you're optimizing your life to meet and end up with the right person, improving yourself in the right way will improve the situations and opportunities for that to happen, it becomes apparent that it's more about realizing how to recognize that person and situation, and hope they do the same. When that clicks, one can end up happily, and hopelessly married forever. Don't confuse dating (temporary startup) with the goal of a lasting relationship (established business)

11) Don't take advice from people who don't have experience with what they are giving advice on. Like the post above in some cases.

I know you might feel excluded from some opportunities, but in a way, maybe it's filtering out the crap for you and you will only meet the people who genuinely want to work with you.

Being a visible minority can have it's perks. Like the exclusionary glances immediately telling you in a room who you can talk to and be a star with, and who you don't need to talk to.

While we don't know your exact situation, know you're not alone, and let the losers and losing situations filter themselves out, it is for the best.

Feel free to connect offline if you would like to chat some more.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#114
post #41
post #7

Just keep trying. You have just been unlucky so far. A lot of success comes down to dogged persistence. Here's a great book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010MH9V3W/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

I just finished the book on audible. I highly recommend it. Here are my notes for it, but don't let this substitute the book. Talent x effort = skill Skill x effort = achievement Grit is required in life. Watch out for claims of otherwise Grit is not just working hard, but sticking to it for months. Doing what you love and staying in love. There's a pyramid of goals. Concrete ones on the bottom, like getting up at 8a…

This is awesome, my kind of summary, thank you for sharing fearlessly.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being clear and understandable not an important professional capability? If not, then why does the interview require it?

> A: Please take a seat. As you know, we hired you because you did great on your interview. But we recently noticed that you speak with an Indian accent. Did you attempted to hide your accent during the interview? > B: Uh, maybe a little? I've been taking accent reduction classes and learned to speak without one, but can't keep it up 24/7. > A: Thanks for your honestly. Unfortunately we'll have to let you go. Please…

If this conversation happened, you should be glad. That does not sound like the type of place you would want to work at in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#116
> "You are a great candidate, and we would like you to interview with this other role. But this particular role is not a good fit"

If that's common, then your sales pitch for yourself isn't targeting the job you're applying for. You need to downplay some of your prior accomplishments, if they're tied to whatever the "other" tends to be, and play up more of what's focused on the particular role you have, even if it's weaker.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#118
Hrmmmm, I'm interviewing now for general helpdesk roles in my area, and my numbers for comparison are as such: 172 Applications 14 Interviews 4 Onsite 2 Offers

I very much understand your frustration with the job market and how things go, because before I was in my current location, I sent out 200+ applications and got 2 interviews with no responses. The cop out advice is to just keep trying, but I would echo sentiments to find a set of friends to interview you in panel interviews and one on one and see what kind of feedback they give, or if you can do better and get a friend of a friend to do it, that may be better since they don't explicitly know you and may give you more constructive criticism.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#119
Hrmmmm, I'm interviewing now for general helpdesk roles in my area, and my numbers for comparison are as such: 172 Applications 14 Interviews 4 Onsite 2 Offers

I very much understand your frustration with the job market and how things go, because before I was in my current location, I sent out 200+ applications and got 2 interviews with no responses. The cop out advice is to just keep trying, but I would echo sentiments to find a set of friends to interview you in panel interviews and one on one and see what kind of feedback they give, or if you can do better and get a friend of a friend to do it, that may be better since they don't explicitly know you and may give you more constructive criticism.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#120
> in most instances the feedback has been "You are a great candidate, and we would like you to interview with this other role. But this particular role is not a good fit"

What are the other roles? So you've had a bunch of instances where they're eager to hire you it sounds like, and you hate your current job, so why no grab one of those other, slightly different, opportunities?

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