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Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

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Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#111

Post by TylerE »

adventured wrote: post #94
TylerE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I really agree. It's been done. Mid-engined layouts are just a pain to do maintenance on, generally offer reduced cargo space and interior room. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/19... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Fe...

When has a mass produced middle class car ever looked like that Alfa 4C? It's neither mass produced, nor middle class. It shipped with a $67k msrp. You're talking about a car that sells in the hundreds of units.

The 4C has a base price of $55,000. You can spec most mid-sized crossovers into that price territory.

They build 3,500 of 'em per year. That's very high compared to say, any given Ferrari or Lamborghini model.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#112

Post by avenoir »

pixelbash wrote: post #100
avenoir wrote: post #97

Typical super-car designs embrace wider chassis and lower-sitting suspension. Both are impractical for daily driving. Not to mention the absence of space for occupants or lack of trunk space. Try to sit in any coupe with the second row of seats and you'll instantly feel like a sardine. I think an even bigger issue is that you can't have a car with the super-car design but without the matching horsepower. They just wo…

Lotus Elise, BRZ, Alpha 4C, and others are very nice cars with lower horsepower to match the handling. It's nice to be able to drive something to it's full potential without electronics or loss of license. I haven't owned any of these cars but I do own a 600cc sport bike. Modern 200+ hp litrebikes are now mostly just computers on wheels.

I wouldn't put BRZ in this category, but Lotus Elise and the 4C are definitely perfect examples of super-cars with manageable horsepower. I stand corrected, sir! I do wonder, however, if people are still choosing 350z, BRZs and STIs over something like a Elise because, ironically, you get more ponies for your buck.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#115

Post by jessriedel »

heavymark wrote: post #24

Middle class cars at aimed at different needs than highend cars. A highend car like a Ferrari may aim at image and performance solely and not consider how that car would handle/drive in adverse conditions like snow or concerns for MPG. Most middle class cars are highly optimized shape wise for MPG as well as handling all types of road and weather which is why tires on performance cars look so different than middle cl…

The emphasis on MPG is driven by regulation, not consumer choice. Auto manufacturers are required to satisfy fleet-average MPG requirements that have continuously risen over years. Most low- and mid-hanging engine efficiency improvements have been picked, so drag reduction is just about all that's left. This is why the large bulk of modern cars all look like identical eggs even though consumers would pay for non-egg cars in the absence of regulation, and don't understand why cars look so much more boring than a few decades ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Econo...

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#118

Post by sien »

dagw wrote: post #16

Because at the end of the day the Ferrari (or Porsche or Lamborghini) design is not a very comfortable or practical design for day to day use. The (two) people I know who own Porsche sports cars also own a second car.

It's also worth noting that Porsche are different from Lamborghini or Ferrari.

Last year Porsche made 230K cars. In their history Ferrari have made 130K. Lamborghini made 3.2K cars last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#Production_and_sales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari#Road_cars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini#Products

Porsche are pretty much a normal factory car. They have low volumes and go fast. But that is pretty much where they stand. Ferraris and Laborghinis are far closer to being hand made.

Factory made cars are more reliable than hand built cars. People who have owned these cars have told me using a Porsche for a day to day car is doable. A Ferrari or Lamborghini probably isn't reliable enough.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#119

Post by SimonPStevens »

Perhaps because supercars are ridiculously impractical. They are too low to handle speed bumps, they are cramped inside and have little to no luggage or passenger space.

Those tradeoffs are to make them fast. People who drive them care about performance, and will likely have a second car for more general driving.

No one would want to buy a car that made those trade offs without getting the performance in return.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#120

Post by iaw »

durandal1 wrote: post #113

In the documentary Objectified (recommended!), a BMW designer brings up the point that a car design should express what the car is . If there's a mismatch between the look, and how it feels to drive, it will be rejected by customers.

The Fiero comes to mind.
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