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Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

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Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#101

Post by tomlue »

nurettin wrote: post #81
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more I use GPT, the less I'm worried I'm curious, as I see quite a few people saying this. You might not be worried about GPT4, but aren't you at least a little concerned about GPT8 or whatever? Just having a post like this a mere 5 years ago would've been unthinkable yet here we are.

There are limits to what the current hardware can achieve. That said, a theoretical gpt8 that displays reasoning skills several orders of magnitude better than gpt4 still has to work within the tools and boundaries set by the existing frameworks and it still be using input from existing pieces of work. And a person who is not an expert at using those frameworks and familiar with existing state of the art will not be…

Yes they will, a more capable chatgpt will do more than give you code to copy/paste, it will directly interact with your infrastructure, git repositories, etc.

Even if it didn't, the capacity for a developer to learn all the frameworks just got much much greater, which is a bad thing for developer salaries.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#102

Post by thefz »

codingdave wrote: post #13

The more I use GPT, the less I'm worried. It is a tool, and a good one, but not a replacement for the thought required to design an app that will function, scale, and have good UX to result in a marketable product. So use it and enjoy its benefits while letting it help you perform even better. As far as everything else you've said... oof, you need a break. You seem focused on money and ego. Maybe it is time to simpli…

> It is a tool, and a good one

Not even a good one imo, I ask it to cite its sources and it makes up the URLs 95% of the time.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#103

Post by constantcrying »

me_me_me wrote: post #88
constantcrying wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who have the most to gain from an increase in productivity are those who already have lots of experience and are willing to embrace new technologies.

... or people who don't need that experience to now compete against you.

>... or people who don't need that experience to now compete against you.

I am convinced that ChatGPT works multiplicatively. You need to ask the right questions and be able to quickly understand the output. Those skills come from experienced developers.

ChatGPT, if anything, will greatly reduce the amount of banalities as those are obviously easier to automate. The people writing banalities now are the ones which the least experience and skills.

The more senior you are the more broader you control the code, deciding on abstractions, interfaces and features. This is obviously something ChatGPT is horrible at and giving someone with 6 months of experience and ChatGPT the ability to decide on that will lead to disaster.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#104

Post by tomlue »

grugagag wrote: post #90
tomlue wrote: post #72

Some developers derive career stability by being the only person who understands a complex system at a company. This 'trick' has been undercut in a huge way. It is much easier for another dev to understand your complex system now, which makes you replaceable.

Yes and no. There’s a lot of latent ot tacit knowledge about said system that chatgpt can’t ever guess but can bullshit about it a lot, throwing you to nearly endless deadend alleys. But I agree in a sense , for certain scenarios hiding behind complexity will become less and less of a cover.

If the ‘tacit’ knowledge can be discovered in code, docs, email, slack, recorded conversations, etc then LLMs can find it and integrate it in its responses. This makes you easier to replace

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#105

Post by thaway_thaway34 »

jmuguy wrote: post #36

"...I use ChatGPT on a daily basis to build projects..." Really? What projects? I think its telling that you haven't replied to any of the comments here - is this post just BS? A take that really summed up how I feel about all this hysteria around LLMs and ChatGPT specifically: People are praying to it, treating it like an Oracle. Anything you can dream up, GPT can do. Its exhausting.

I didn’t expect this thread to blow up while I was away for lunch, hence no replies until now.

I built 4 projects so far with it. Out of these 3, 1 is clone of an app that has been charging 65usd per year. Other one was rehash/improvement on an existing app that has been selling for 25usd.

It took me under a day to build the prototype, a week to deploy/build installer.

The only thing left is to actually put them out in the market really.

This was just too easy.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#106

Post by caeril »

t43562 wrote: post #98

When google turned up (or before) we started to get more productive by being able to look up information and other people's code examples and so on. I couldn't have done my job properly in my whole career without search to help me. Anyone could look up an internet reference and copy some lines of code without being special. Or could download a python library that does what was needed and write almost no code. GPT is…

I've had the opposite experience. Not just google, but StackOverflow. Did these tools make me more "productive" in the immediate sense of closing feature request tickets? Sure, absolutely.

But these are all crutches for the mind. I don't know about you, but my capability and skill as a developer has only ever been improved by meeting dead-ends, and doing the cognitively demanding work of actually understanding the system I'm working on at a deep level, and deriving solutions myself.

Google, StackOverflow and the like have definitely improved raw feature delivery rates, but they have indisputably made me dumber and less skilled.

As for LLMs, I'm on the fence. I am using GPT-4 in some code generation utilities I've written to speed up mundane tasks, and I do not yet believe it impinges on my ability to learn, as these are just mundane tasks. But there's a good chance this will change if I ever get access to the 32K token model, or GPT-5, GPT-6, etc are released and will be much more capable.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#107

Post by thaway_thaway34 »

tomlue wrote: post #60

There are a lot of developers in denial here. I write code for scientific applications. I used to hire/contract out some work to other devs. In the last 6 months I haven't needed to hire anybody else, doing so would have been a waste of money. This is 100% because of chatgpt. Many devs are hired by other devs and these people are aware enough to know they don't need you anymore. Other developers have been spoiled by…

Exactly this. If I could, I would pin this comment.

It is not simply about job safety, it is about the career ladder.

When the career ladder is disrupted, how will even the banks evaluate someone’s ability to pay off mortgage for long term.

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#108

Post by thaway_thaway34 »

gizmo wrote: post #26

Whenever you feel this kind of panic you should ask yourself how F’d you are relative to the general population. AI will shake things up for sure, but has it ever been the case that smart, educated, experienced people collectively got hurt because of innovation or disruption? No, never. Your total comp might go down or it might go up. Every time you make a career move that’s the risk you take. But if you’re healthy a…

Yeah, but how do we protect and grow expertise when it can be easily copied in GPT-(n+1)

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#109

Post by thaway_thaway34 »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #19

Have you used any of these AI tools? If you have, you should feel more confident not anxious. It will make bad programmers worse and good programmers better.

Well, yeah, like I said I have been using it to build several projects.

My productivity definitely went up at least by a factor of 5 by a safe estimate.

This is amazing, all good, yeah. But doesnt that mean companies need 5x fewer people?

Re: Ask HN: GPT4 Broke Me

#110

Post by thaway_thaway34 »

Lewton wrote: post #14

If you're in top 5% of TC, you're not in danger for the foreseeable future, GPT-4 will make expertise more valuable, not less. And it's the middle brackets that will have to fight to keep their jobs against the low-skilled workers that have now been elevated to average

Yeah I definitely won’t be quitting from my current job with high TC until I am fired of laid off.
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