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Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

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Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#101
post #92
post #89

School (and Uni) are designed to train you to become academics. So naturally, anyone aspiring to be other than that, will be screwed to various degree. I'm a certified genius. A member of Mensa. But I never do well in school. I do train myself to have the following attitudes : grit, honesty, initiative (note: different than assertive), be a helpful (friendly) person. People consider me to be a rather successful perso…

bruv, Mensa tests don’t indicate nothing

(1) That's not all that I said,and (2) missing the point.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#102
I know plenty of people who did fine in software development and related jobs without CS degrees. I would recommend fitting in as many STEM, philosophy and linguistics classes as you can and maybe add a minor or double major in one of those subjects instead of CS.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#103
Yes! I failed on subjects consistently in school. College I went to would be laughable with my peer group. I attribute any and all professional or other success I have had in my life to my curiosity. I work at the biggest of bigtech in the valley and feel proud to have made it here on my own and my luck. Although the imposter syndrome is something I carry every minute of my work life. Anywhere you go here you have people that are academically superior to me. But I seem to go toe to toe with some and that has helped me a little bit in dealing with the syndrome.

I learned very late in life that there is “smart” and there is academically strong. You can have the former without the latter. For years I believed both to be the same and until I grew up and met academically strong people who extremely clueless in most aspects of their lives.

I am not saying I am Good Will Hunting here. Far far from it. All I am trying to say there is hope. Don’t let other people and/or societal and cultural norms define you. Let your skills and your knowledge define you. Education and grades more about winning the signaling game and I fully admit that it does give one a little bit of a leg up. But that’s not the only way. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#104
I dropped out of High School. Tried community college. Dropped out after one year.

I taught myself to program. Built a career working for startups. Started my own startup. Now running a product agency.

Don’t worry about school. Apply yourself to work that matters to you. Be patient. Always seek to learn and improve. Don’t be afraid of failure.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#106
post #98

I teach part time at the university level (I am not going to say where). I would love to give you my perspective on this as I see a lot of non-neurotypical students. Some of these students do well in an academic environment; some don't - and to generalize this across schools; some schools have a more regularized population and select for this. Similarly, others accommodate more for these types of things versus school…

> There are other door openers, like being a really good coder. This may have been true at one point, but if it was ever true, it no longer is. To get well-paying jobs (above the poverty line), you either need a degree or you need a certification. The certifications run into the exact same component issues of academia. Its optimizing for a specific type and limiting everyone else, and importantly its not primarily ba…

I've been in IT for over a decade and in almost all companies, with the people that hire these types, before the hiring manager or person who makes the decisions even see the resumes for any position; HR throws out everyone without a degree; if they are desperate they hold onto the certificates in another pile. Not a choice, no say, it happens, unilaterally just about everywhere.

Don't like what I said?, tough, this is the harsh reality of IT and really any job today. Its the cult of qualification. Who decides who is qualified is a corrupt process when that criteria is not based solely upon knowledge and skill... as education and certifications are based on other criteria with the mentioned criteria being secondary today. Its another form of tweedism by adding a filter at an earlier stage so you only get certain candidates later. Lawrence Lessig can explain it to you.

Those stories of getting hired into IT are unicorn stories that are almost always the exception than anything else. You might get one opportunity in a 30 year period if you are lucky, if at all.

I would have appreciated someone not giving me the same advice you gave, 30 years ago. It resulted in two decades of wasted effort and financial loss, it was deceitful and limiting. It is the former because the person giving the advice should have had constructive knowledge of knowing better based upon their position and authority.

Ignoring what I'm saying or downranking to make my post invisible to go on with happy thoughts just means you are volunteering or misleading others into a struggle session that won't ever end, until they re-exam what you said and ultimately discard it. They won't thank you for that when all is said and done, and doing something like that is one of the more evil things a person can do. This is why when giving advice its important to know from what you speak, to have and show credibility.

These are hard truths, its better to actually educate and give people a chance than mislead them into self-limiting cycles of suffering without warning for potentially decades.

"Just be yourself and find your superpower" is rubbish when you are trying to find a job to feed yourself and progress to financial independence. Coding at this point will likely be eliminated by a Chat-GPT based derivative in a few months or worse case a few years, and you'll be only a halfway decent programmer by then and likely completely dependent on social nets for food thereafter while somehow bearing the cost to go back to school to re-educate.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#107
I didn't even do that well in high school (U.S.), but did score well enough on the ACT to get admitted to a good STEM university where I repeated the process of just doing enough to get by while seeing some high school higher achievers flame out.

I have a "feature bug" where I need to really be interested in something to want to learn it and then I can be borderline obsessive about it. Fortunately software development is something that I am interested in (most of the time). Once it get an idea about something that will improve the product or fix a bug, I can really "lock in" on it.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#108
Had a torture filled 4 years in my undergraduate degree. Mostly poor grades throughout. But I aced the 2 internships as part of the degree program. Several profs told me that had the university believed in absolute marking versus relative, I would have been booted out in the third year itself. I can solve real world problems, but cant understand theory and textbooks beyond a point. Definitely struggle with closed scope problems in exams. I learnt to code - started with frontend development, which was easier back then. Basically, find something in software that you can excel at, with ease, within months. Resilience beats academic excellence in the real world of solving typical problems and earning a decent living.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#109
post #106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other door openers, like being a really good coder. This may have been true at one point, but if it was ever true, it no longer is. To get well-paying jobs (above the poverty line), you either need a degree or you need a certification. The certifications run into the exact same component issues of academia. Its optimizing for a specific type and limiting everyone else, and importantly its not primarily ba…

I've been in IT for over a decade and in almost all companies, with the people that hire these types, before the hiring manager or person who makes the decisions even see the resumes for any position; HR throws out everyone without a degree; if they are desperate they hold onto the certificates in another pile. Not a choice, no say, it happens, unilaterally just about everywhere. Don't like what I said?, tough, this…

> HR throws out everyone without a degree; if they are desperate they hold onto the certificates in another pile. Not a choice, no say, it happens, unilaterally just about everywhere.

What we need is a class-action lawsuit, with discovery. Throwing out certifications should be a blatant violation of Griggs v. Duke Power. And anyone downgraded in salary should get equity increases along with however many years of back pay.

Re: Ask HN: Did Anyone Else Here Simply Not Do Well at School?

#110
post #3

I was a terrible student who really disliked school. At the time (late 90s), I found the curriculum staid and obsolete on delivery and didn’t see a way to explore things that interested me. Things turned out ok. None of the big companies that visited campus would interview me. I ended up at a late stage startup that had taken a hit in the dotcom crash and did really well there. Then the company was bought at a premiu…

> The key is getting in the door and kicking ass. Be good to people.

The key is someone gave you a chance. And for this to continue you need to give others a chance.

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