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Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#101

Post by kiviuq »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #54
flandish wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not though - when you look at what really “drives” the relationship. You trade your labor for money in a system designed to keep us so anxious, we will accept as little wage as possible, by the same capital owning class. We are subject to their desires as they are bound, by law, to choose profit for shareholders over employees. We are their subjects. “Ain’t no war but class war” applies to us in tech as much as…

What you describe is a trade relationship, not "subject".

The same kind of trade relationship as that between American mining companies and Ghanaian miners.

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#103

Post by badpun »

Apocryphon wrote: post #76
baronswindle wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry, but your description of a relationship with an employer doesn’t match mine at all. I don’t feel anxious. I feel comfortable. I don’t accept as little as possible. I negotiate with the knowledge that I have options. I don’t toil in the mines for 80 hours a week to barely afford to feed myself. I spend 40-50 hours a week doing something I rather enjoy, and for that, I’m paid a salary that affords a lifestyle…

Your employer can also choose to terminate that relationship at any time. No problem, you could just get a job at another shop, right? Except when the black swan appears and all the other companies are doing layoffs and freezes, flooding the market with talent while limiting positions. Then, in that hour of crisis, is the true nature of the relationship revealed at last.

That's why you have savings to wait out that period...

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#104

Post by BerislavLopac »

musicale wrote: post #98
fnordpiglet wrote: post #50

Interestingly I’m a few years over 30 years info my tech career and it was avoid 10 years ago I could see the fnords at last. There is no safety, there never was. There’s no golden ring, there is no winning, there is no camaraderie, there is no value in promotion, the respect of your peers is meaningless, and it’s all just a sham to get you to expend more of your soul for less money. Once I had pierced the ceiling in…

> it’s all just a sham to get you to expend more of your soul for less money This is a concise and accurate summary.

Indeed it is. I have lately been thinking more and more about the cooperative model as a viable alternative to the standard corporate model for software companies...

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#105

Post by badpun »

shellothere wrote: post #80
atlgator wrote: post #36

It's a bloody job. I have no right to a job. You have no right to a job. I just maintain and grow my skills and demonstrate my value as best I can until the day I'm no longer needed. Then on to the next thing. Psychological safety doesn't exist.

Interestingly there seem to be (at least) 2 schools of thought popular in the US: 1. I have no right to a job. I should earn one myself, or make my own thing. Pull myself up by my bootstraps. Etc. 2. Business owners and landlords are the ruling class. They have an obligation to support us in the form of jobs or housing. Etc.

Must be infuriating to belong to the first category, build a business out of nothing, and then have a lot of people from the second category come, demanding you support them, because "you're rich!".

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#106

Post by nickd2001 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #50

Interestingly I’m a few years over 30 years info my tech career and it was avoid 10 years ago I could see the fnords at last. There is no safety, there never was. There’s no golden ring, there is no winning, there is no camaraderie, there is no value in promotion, the respect of your peers is meaningless, and it’s all just a sham to get you to expend more of your soul for less money. Once I had pierced the ceiling in…

I'm just surprised people buy into the corporate nonsense in the first place. You have to be pretty intelligent to be a software developer.... yet... many of the same intelligent people appear not to understand how they're being manipulated in the workplace. Or the fact that looking after one another is a better idea for everyone, than competing against each other and behaving in a dog-eat-dog manner. In my experience, one can find camaraderie, human connection and lifelong friends, from a few people at any private (corporate) workplace. In public sector workplaces where the profit motive is less dominant and people stay longer in the job, I've found it easier to make friendships with nice people who I think if we worked in private sector it'd be "admiration from afar" . Many of us have worked in corporations where we have team-mates where there's respect and mutual appreciation but everyone's just too busy to connect, people move on etc . I think the answer is, be healthily skeptical about any corporate employer you work for and try to be kind to colleagues. Don't take it personally if the machine screws people over, and maintain good friendships outside of work

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#107

Post by nickd2001 »

badpun wrote: post #103
Apocryphon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your employer can also choose to terminate that relationship at any time. No problem, you could just get a job at another shop, right? Except when the black swan appears and all the other companies are doing layoffs and freezes, flooding the market with talent while limiting positions. Then, in that hour of crisis, is the true nature of the relationship revealed at last.

That's why you have savings to wait out that period...

As software devs. we can save, right? :). Not sure the same logic applies to people on low wage jobs. Or people like the characters in the movie "Nomadland" (which is supposed to be true to life)

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#108

Post by greenyoda »

28304283409234 wrote: post #96
moomoo11 wrote: post #84

It’s a job dude. You sign the offer letter for 300k plus TC and you’re just a resource. Do it well and you can leave any time you want for something else. You’re not forced to work for 300k lol. Just hop ship and make 400k. You’re working for a capitalist machination. You want something deeper start your own company or do something else. These companies don’t care about you. The “cool tech” you build is just an icing…

Oh if only I could upvote this x1000. Watch the documentary "The Corporation". It explains perfectly what is going on.

You can watch "The Corporation" free on the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/The_Corporation_/TheCorporation-...

More about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_(2003_film)

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#109

Post by mejutoco »

atlgator wrote: post #36

It's a bloody job. I have no right to a job. You have no right to a job. I just maintain and grow my skills and demonstrate my value as best I can until the day I'm no longer needed. Then on to the next thing. Psychological safety doesn't exist.

Article 23,24,25 of the universal declaration of rights

> Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

> Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

> Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

> Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

I know reality often does not match, but if we are talking about rights, surely this document is relevant.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel psychological safety at your job?

#110

Post by mariusor »

mejutoco wrote: post #109
atlgator wrote: post #36

It's a bloody job. I have no right to a job. You have no right to a job. I just maintain and grow my skills and demonstrate my value as best I can until the day I'm no longer needed. Then on to the next thing. Psychological safety doesn't exist.

Article 23,24,25 of the universal declaration of rights > Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. > Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. > Ev…

I'm pretty sure that the first part of the quote doesn't mean what you're implying it does. The right to work and free choice of employment does not make one safe against not being offered a job or being fired from one.
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