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Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

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Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#101

Post by IE6 »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #44
muzani wrote: post #2

Preparation. Anyone who has done public speaking knows that it's a lot of work to be a good speaker. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says you have to be 10x more prepared than you need to be. He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research. One interviewer asked Neil whether it was worth the $3B mission to Saturn. He brought up that it's $3B over 12 years and that it's how much…

> He calls it his Batman utility belt. You anticipate every question you'll get and do your research. Part of the reason Neil DeGrasse Tyson is so painful to watch/listen to (especially on his recent appearances) is that this over-preparation or expectation of specific talking points comes off as smugness, interrupting behavior, etc... is it this which hurts the flow of conversation and even seemed to exasperate Joe…

This to me is tangential - I am wondering if you are more annoyed at his preparation (which I believe is an excellent example and suggestion to the OP's question) or that he talked over Joe Rogan and didn't let him finish his joke ...

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#102

Post by ruh-roh »

kettro wrote: post #85
kube-system wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you answer immediately, you will "ummmm uhhh" a lot. Learn to take a breather and buy time. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten for this was: If you're pausing to think, just be silent. Practice for a while and have someone call you out on it. It's a hard habit to break, but someone who doesn't fill space with "um" will sound twice as smart.

A coworker I had (a good friend and an _amazing_ engineer) would generally just pause silently and think after a question. It was initially off putting, and I couldn’t tell what was happening, but very quickly got used to it. I started doing it myself, but start with a short “hmm” to indicate that I’m now thinking about the question, or just say “let me think”. Waiting helps you ignore the impulse responses, and doub…

Using silence strategically is a superpower.

Best leader I ever worked with had a "7 second silence" rule. Just don't say anything for 7 seconds. Requesting input on a topic/idea in a meeting? Wait in silence for 7 seconds. Dropping an important point in a presentation? Wait for 7 seconds. Not sure of the answer to a question? Wait for 7 seconds. If you have doubt about what to say or do? Just wait and breathe for 7 seconds.

It is extremely difficult to do in practice. But it is crazy what a breather can do to help you organize your thoughts. Or what other people will do to fill the void.

(Note: It's not a novel idea, I've seen other folks use 5, 6, or 8 seconds. imo 7 is _just_ on the border of uncomfortable.)

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#103

Post by spicyramen_ »

glitchc wrote: post #78
jrh206 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those clips are painful. DeGrasse Tyson interrupts Rogan right before important words - punchlines. For instance, in the first clip, Rogan begins “what’s interesting is that the town is -”, and DeGrasse Tyson takes that moment to pattern break: “wait, wait, wait, have you seen that they did Starry Night in bacon?!”. Rogan blinks, stunned. His point about the town lost forever. Regardless, it’s possible to be well pre…

This might be on purpose, especially if Mr. Rogan is pandering to the audience and Dr. Tyson is aware of his behavior.

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#104

Post by weinzierl »

jcpst wrote: post #18

I can’t speak to this directly, but I’ve heard from a few people in my company that joining their local Toastmasters group really helped them out. Could anyone speak to that?

I can speak to that directly and Toastmasters helped me a lot. In my club for every speech there was an Ah-counter who counted all the interjections and unnecessary words. In my opinion this feedback, weekly over a long period of time, is the only way to improve on this subconscious utterances.

Besides prepared speeches everyone did short two minute impromptu speeches at every meeting. We always got feedback, verbally in front of the others as well as in writing and secretly. Even the short speeches were strictly timed and Ah-counted.

It's all very simple but done every week for a few months improvement is inevitable.

Membership fees were next to nothing and there was no long term commitment. You could just pay in cash at the meetings. Toastmasters is also a non-profit, so little money but well spent.

The meetings back then were always open to anyone and you could just hop-by without registration or being a member. As a non-member you could even participate in most of the activities but you wouldn't be given speaking slots.

Downsides? You will have to invest a significant amount of time and energy.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#105

Post by CoffeeOnWrite »

WmyEE0UsWAwC2i wrote: post #80

I found reading books, like novels, helps to build the necessary skills to chain complex ideas together in "real time".

Upvoted for creativity in offering a fun recreational option. Do folks have others to suggest?

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#106

Post by hutzlibu »

"I have noticed that at interviews, I struggle to build a proper narrative and talk coherently."

Is it only at interviews? Than it would be merley the pressure, you cannot stand.

In either case, why not practice talking with logical flow and coherence every time, you have a actual conversation?

I am not a fan of learning verbal conversation by books. I learned english for 10 years in school like this (and had quite good grades). Then I went backpacking into the world - and I allmost could not communicate with native english speakers at all. Very, very frustrating. The only thing that helped, was practice, practice and practice.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#107

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Interviewing 101:

1. Know what you're interviewing for. You should clarify this with the recruiter before accepting an interview.

2. Learn about the company that you're interviewing for. This shows that you have put thought into being a part of the company and that you are diligent about ensuring that you think about the tasks you are undertaking.

3. Learn how to concisely describe what you've done in the past. Nobody needs a complete history. They just want to know that you're competent enough to do the job.

4. Be sure to answer the question asked. I recently interviewed a candidate for a SDET role and asked her about her experience performing simple database queries. Her eyes rolled into the back of her head and she went on a 5 minute recitation of the steps she went through to do Selenium testing. It's not the information I asked for.

5. Behave as if you are in a position of equality with the interviewer. You lose nothing but your time if you don't get the job. Don't be meek. Show confidence. Any good manager is never going to hire someone they wouldn't want to work for in the future.

6. Practice your answers. We all know that interviewers generally ask the same subset of questions. You should be able to answer them immediately.

7. Tied in with #5, prepare questions that you wish to ask the interviewer. Show them that you are serious about evaluating them for the possibility of joining the company. Show that you believe in yourself.

8. Practice. As a former recruiter, I don't need to do this very much, but if you are new to the game, then it's never a bad thing to get your answers and response time down.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#108

Post by drBonkers »

blowski wrote: post #54
publicola1990 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But some people seems so at ease with spontaneity, dealing with dynamic, emergent conversations, and even the ability to direct it to particular directions or narratives. I doubt all of it is preparation.

There’s an article about Boris Johnson’s bumbling talking style, and how it’s all a schtick. Before he was even London Mayor, so had fewer repeat listeners, a journalist went to three of his speeches in the same year. In each one, Boris arrived and apparently didn’t know where he was. He then made a brilliant speech with the same “ad-lib” jokes, mixed up his reading notes at the same point. Making public speaking loo…

I’d love a link to this if you have it.

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#109

Post by blowski »

drBonkers wrote: post #108
blowski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an article about Boris Johnson’s bumbling talking style, and how it’s all a schtick. Before he was even London Mayor, so had fewer repeat listeners, a journalist went to three of his speeches in the same year. In each one, Boris arrived and apparently didn’t know where he was. He then made a brilliant speech with the same “ad-lib” jokes, mixed up his reading notes at the same point. Making public speaking loo…

I’d love a link to this if you have it.

I think it might have been this, though it’s only two speeches and 18 months apart here.

https://reaction.life/jeremy-vine-my-boris-story/

Re: Ask HN: How to talk with logical flow and coherence at interviews?

#110

Post by demux »

yodsanklai wrote: post #90
cl42 wrote: post #19

Here is what I recommend for everyone , regardless of role. 1. Make an Excel/Google sheet with 50+ questions you think will come up in an interview. 2. Open Zoom and start recording. 3. Randomize the question list and practice answering each question in 1-2 minutes. Take a break. 4. Watch the video and critique yourself. 5. Rinse and repeat. You will get very, very good over time.

I wonder if people actually do that. I think watching how much I suck will be depressing.

It will the first couple of times, after that it just becomes a video!
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