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Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#101

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

falcolas wrote: post #99
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

Technology does not solve social or economic problems. How we use that technology is how you solve social or economic problems. How are we using Bitcoin? As a ponzi scheme where the earliest of investors win by bringing more people in. How are we using Blockchains (specifically NFTs)? Outright fraud. Ponzi schemes and fraud won't solve our social or economic woes. What few good things Bitcoin and the blockchain ever…

> Technology does not solve social or economic problems.

Never said that it did. Only that HN'ers suffer from a kind of overconfidence of other aspects of this world because they are used to being right on technical things.

> How are we using Bitcoin? As a ponzi scheme where the earliest of investors win by bringing more people in.

The US dollar fits a better definition of a ponzi scheme, its just a different kind of pyramid. The closer you are to the regulatory environment, the more disproportionate your gains. Bitcoin will store value better than the dollar. Doesn't matter if you're "late" or "early". So its not a system that favors those who got in early, its a system that favors everyone who uses it.

> How are we using Blockchains (specifically NFTs)? Outright fraud.

Lets not discuss nft's or other cryptos. Only bitcoin.

> Ponzi schemes and fraud won't solve our social or economic woes. What few good things Bitcoin and the blockchain ever provided has been completely overwhelmed by the crap.

Again lets not talk nft's or other cryptos. Only bitcoin.

> As a result, governments are going to crack down on these technologies hard. They've already started by taxing these virtual currencies the same way they do stocks.

Thank goodness. Regulations and legislature is necessary for this emerging market. We need to work with it, not against it.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#102

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

bb88 wrote: post #100
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

> I would say rather that HN readers are blinded by their own technical abilities, so much so that they think they are right when it comes to social or economic ones. I agree with you on that. Never mind the money laundering, the criminal extortion, the unfettered grift, the ponzi schemes, the lack of regulation, smart contracts which aren't, securities sold in exchanges that aren't secure, the gross misappropriation…

> Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in

I don't know who the "they" you're referring to is, but I'm pretty sure the people who are really into NFT's actually believe in it. My guess is there's still more scammers than not, but they remind me of card traders. You can laugh at them all day, but some of those pokemon cards are worth a lot of money. I don't think they think its a fraud, they like the feeling of owning that NFT.

So getting back to it, "realize its all a fraud", that's already poising the well before you ask the question. It would actually have to be one(a fraud) for someone to "realize" that it is. Otherwise you need to talk objectively and work your question from the standpoint that "NFT's/crypto is a fraud" is merely an opinion and not a hidden fact that needs to be realized.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#103

Post by yellowapple »

It's because your average HN reader/commenter/poster skews toward upper class entrepreneurs (and people trying to become them) and has a vested interest (whether one realizes it or not) in the continued survival of the legacy financial system - even as that system continues to fail those outside the developed world (and quite a few of those inside it).

Cryptocurrency ain't a silver bullet by any stretch, and there's a lot of problems with it and excessive hype around it, but it is a great opportunity for the developing world to circumvent a system increasingly rigged against them in favor of one that treats them as equals.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#104

Post by yellowapple »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #56
przeor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

similar empty promises were made in dot com era. Does it mean dot com period of 1995-2001 was wasted and meaningless?

Good worthwhile valuable things were actually created on the web in the late nineties. The bubble was that they just didn't live up to the speculative financial hype. The problem with crypto is that all that it is is speculative financial hype. The entire worth of crypto is a bet on its future utility. The difference between the dot com bubble and web3 is that there is no web3 craigslist or geocities or usenet or alt…

> Good worthwhile valuable things were actually created on the web in the late nineties.

And good worthwhile things are being created in the cryptocurrency/blockchain space now. Likewise, there was a lot of useless bullshit on the Web in the 90's, and a lot of useless bullshit in the blockchain space today. And likewise, there were a lot of pre-Web "experts" making the Web out to be some passing fad due to all the bullshit, and there are a lot of pre-blockchain "experts" making blockchains/cryptocurrency out to be some passing fad due to all the bullshit - in both cases ignoring the potential, only to find themselves and their opinions irrelevant.

I don't know whether blockchains are going to end up being as fundamental to the world economy in the coming decades as the World Wide Web is today, but I do know that history repeats itself, and I ain't arrogant enough to assume this to be some exception.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#105

Post by yellowapple »

throwmeariver1 wrote: post #53
przeor wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale is different because back then there were circa 100 000 000 +/- mln onboarded onto the hype. Now They expect 1BLN+ to be onboarded to crypto with internet access. More growth potential takes more time to play out. Most people were ignoring crypto in 2017 like internet was ignored in 1993 by most people. Period of 2009-2016 is like 1980-1992 for the internet. Almost no one was using it beside geeks and tech…

So you are saying we will see crypto crash in 2-3 years? We are living in times were onboarding is the fastest and is getting faster all the time. TikTok first to 100 Million users was 1000x faster than Facebook. I strongly believe you have it in reverse.

> So you are saying we will see crypto crash in 2-3 years?

It's already crashed a couple times now. Each time it did, it came back a couple years later stronger than ever.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#106

Post by bb88 »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #102
bb88 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say rather that HN readers are blinded by their own technical abilities, so much so that they think they are right when it comes to social or economic ones. I agree with you on that. Never mind the money laundering, the criminal extortion, the unfettered grift, the ponzi schemes, the lack of regulation, smart contracts which aren't, securities sold in exchanges that aren't secure, the gross misappropriation…

> Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in I don't know who the "they" you're referring to is, but I'm pretty sure the people who are really into NFT's actually believe in it. My guess is there's still more scammers than not, but they remind me of card traders. You can laugh at them all day, but some of those pokemon cards are worth a lot of money. I d…

Hi, thanks for responding.

What do they "like" about holding an NFT? They don't own the copyright usually, and they also don't own the original. Do they like seeing their name as the owner on some website? Because we can do that with credit cards and databases and html.

If the well has been poisoned already, asking someone for proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff. This is the kind of pretzel people try to logic themselves out of.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#107

Post by falcolas »

berberous wrote: post #77
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. I think I share a pretty common trait on HN that, if someone gives me marketing speak, I just want to ask "OK, but what does it do ?" There are a lot of promises of the crypto community that are just fundamentally wrong , and when these issues are pointed out, you get lots of non-answers in the form of "OK Boomer". 2 simple examples: 1. Proof-of-work has inherent , fundamental , no-way-to-work-around-it issues…

What "government financial controls" are you referring to? Not everything is black and white. While the government can enact laws, and enforce those with courts and guns, on a practical level it is easier, for example, to flee a hostile country with Bitcoin than with a checking account held at a local bank.

> on a practical level it is easier, for example, to flee a hostile country with Bitcoin

This feels like something that could be proven given the current climate. How many refugees from the multitude of currently-invaded countries are carrying their assets as bitcoins vs. traditional items of value and cash?

Given the tremendous volatility of a bitcoin investment, I doubt many people outside of the upper middle class have bitcoins to begin with, and I really doubt they'd buy bitcoins with what wealth they have access to before fleeing (traditional wisdom says that purchasing items with inherent value that are easy to carry).

But again, that's something that could be proven with the ledger. It would be a good story if the evidence backed it up.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#108

Post by yellowapple »

falcolas wrote: post #99
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical literacy has nothing to do with social, or economic literacy. Bitcoin works exactly as technically scoped. Which part of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is technobabble? I think its a pretty good choice of words. > rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money. I would say rather that HN readers are blin…

Technology does not solve social or economic problems. How we use that technology is how you solve social or economic problems. How are we using Bitcoin? As a ponzi scheme where the earliest of investors win by bringing more people in. How are we using Blockchains (specifically NFTs)? Outright fraud. Ponzi schemes and fraud won't solve our social or economic woes. What few good things Bitcoin and the blockchain ever…

> How are we using Bitcoin? As a ponzi scheme where the earliest of investors win by bringing more people in.

In the developed world, sure. In the developing world, people are using it as actual money to replace traditional financial systems that are rife with corruption or have outright failed.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#109

Post by yellowapple »

bb88 wrote: post #106
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in I don't know who the "they" you're referring to is, but I'm pretty sure the people who are really into NFT's actually believe in it. My guess is there's still more scammers than not, but they remind me of card traders. You can laugh at them all day, but some of those pokemon cards are worth a lot of money. I d…

Hi, thanks for responding. What do they "like" about holding an NFT? They don't own the copyright usually, and they also don't own the original. Do they like seeing their name as the owner on some website? Because we can do that with credit cards and databases and html. If the well has been poisoned already, asking someone for proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff.…

> What do they "like" about holding an NFT?

What do they like about holding Joe Montana's rookie card? Or a first-edition Charizard? Do they like having the physical card? Because we can do that with cardstock and inkjet printers.

It ain't my cup of tea in any case, but it also ain't my place to judge them for it or interrogate their motivations. If they want to collect Yu-gi-oh cards or bored monkey NFTs, power to 'em.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#110

Post by sebastien_bois »

> The sum of these [anti-crypto] articles appears to me as "propaganda". Does anyone else feel the same way?

Funny, I would consider all the unending pro-crypto stories to be the propaganda (someone coined a term: "pro-bitcoinism"[1])

What I've noticed is that the vitriol is almost always instigated by the crypto crowd (especially the bitcoiners), that will lash out at anyone or about anything that doesn't have total loyalty to their "movement". Not exactly an inviting crowd, and certainly doesn't reflect well on cryptocurrency as a whole.

> I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system.

And the other side perceives that total loyalty/belief as some sort of cult. Turns out both sides are right...*and* wrong - just not for the reasons they think.

[1]https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pro-bitcoini...

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