Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#101

Post by svennek » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

pcthrowaway wrote: post #95

yardstick wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting comments! Do you mind sharing your thoughts on why proof of stake won’t happen?

Proof of stake is already happening. It's on Ethereum (though they haven't switched over to the beacon chain from proof-of-work yet), and it's on many others. If you look at the top 100 cryptocurrencies by market capitalization, maybe bitcoin and 1 are 2 others are proof of stake. There are a bunch of 'tokens' cryptocurrencies which exist on top of another blockchain, but the remainder of the layer 1 blockchains and…

Last I looked the so-called proof-of-stake was more a system where somebody put up a stake to be witnesses (in lack of a better word).

When I say proof of stake, I mean it in the way of "proof of possession"

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#102

Post by jacknews » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

throwaway554 wrote: post #73

jacknews wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit like saying that paragliders allow you to fly from one country to another, without the 'system' of aviation, airports, passports, customs, etc. Apart from the fun of it, or for smuggling drugs, it's not that practical for everyday use - just use 'the system'.

Bitcoin was the only way for WikiLeaks to accept donations back when they were cut off from all payment processors.

The issue of payment processors cutting off perfectly legal and valid organizations, individuals, or whole classes of activity is a separate issue.

Since they provide what should be considered essential infrastructure, they should be required to provide service to anything legal, IMHO.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#103

Post by anonymoushn » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

ThalesX wrote: post #62

pennaMan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That s like arguing that because things like scrum masters are a thing in the software world then the whole software industry is valuless bullshit

No, that’s like arguing that it’s bullshit to expect people to keep fighting whether SCRUM is bullshit or not. When I go work for a company that does SCRUM, they inform me and I accept or not. I don’t expect to battle on ideas and wits regarding the subject and then one of us to declare defeated that there’s no longer curiosity regarding scrum mastering.

In these threads we usually only hear about Bitcoin and Ethereum, which is sort of like posting exclusively about scrum when the topic is "why are we as a community not having curious conversations about project management?"

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#104

Post by Ekaros » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:36 AM UTC

gjulianm wrote: post #74

onion2k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto solves a problem around distributed trust. If you have a bunch of people who need to trust something is correct, but don't trust each other, putting that data on a verifiable blockchain that you pay people to cryptographically sign is a good solution. The thing is though, that's a really unusual problem that few people actually have. If you're buying diamonds or bananas or cobalt, and you need a provable suppl…

> NFTs could enable people to transfer digital assets between platforms without needing the platforms to talk to one another. I could buy an NFT of a 3D model of some Yeezy sneakers, and then bring that NFT to Fortnite for my avatar to wear there, and to the Metaverse to show off there, and to a sneakers forum to verify my ownership in the community there as well. That could be quite useful. 3D cosmetic assets for ga…

Implementations are really really messy. I'm not expert but I would argue that likely most engines have slightly different ways of doing things like sneakers on character model. So you can't really transfer from one engine to other. Might work between Unreal-engine games, but even there there might be issues.

And already seen with NFTs, that are much simpler thing. Where does the data live? If it is not on blockchain how do you ensure it stays alive and is accessible. Is it somehow streamed when you load the game and object? Let's say there is dozen character each with multiple pieces of unique one of the kind objects. Maybe from dozens different servers? That will likely cause issues.

Or maybe everyone must include in download every other products stuff too? Seems unfeasible really.

And in the end why? Wouldn't it be better to try to sell a same kind of object in your own product and then make more money from that? Instead allowing use of objects from other places...

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#105

Post by anonymoushn » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:36 AM UTC

jacknews wrote: post #102

throwaway554 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin was the only way for WikiLeaks to accept donations back when they were cut off from all payment processors.

The issue of payment processors cutting off perfectly legal and valid organizations, individuals, or whole classes of activity is a separate issue. Since they provide what should be considered essential infrastructure, they should be required to provide service to anything legal, IMHO.

Why is it that the rest of the time we should solve problems and this time we should wait for the state to solve them?

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#106

Post by Applejinx » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:37 AM UTC

prohobo wrote: post #42

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

Yeah, I'd say your entire approach is antithetical to healthy discussion: insinuating anyone who is interested in crypto is technically inept, and turning the discussion into a 2-sides polarization. There's no use in talking about crypto in a sincere way now because of the way its been politicized. I tried recently to explain to someone that cryptographically codifying law and contracts can be beneficial in a lot of…

It's inherently a political, not a technical, question. I think people on the whole recognize it as such, but it's often easier to try to invalidate the stuff on technical grounds, because for crypto to be beneficial it must satisfy BOTH the political and the technical requirements.

Even if you completely agree with the political aims of crypto, if there are technical flaws it catastrophically ruins everything crypto hopes to achieve.

Even if you completely agree with the technical side of crypto, if the intended end-game horrifies you, you're not gonna want to see it proliferate.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#107

Post by pcthrowaway » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #70

spapas82 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no it is not useless in the real world! Using crypto makes it very easy to send and receive money very quickly, without the need to rely to the "system" of banks, governments etc. I can't think of a more useful application, for me it's more of a revolution!

Given the very limited scale of cryto currency, and limited usability in the real world isn’t it pretty much a failed revolution? Bitcoin is still the biggest crypto currency, and compared to Euro, dollars and other currencies, it’s practically useless. The network can’t compete on scale, compared to VISA, MasterCard or AMEX. The crypto currencies try to solve problems much of the western simply don’t have. The tech…

Technology takes time to mature and see widespread adoption. Whether you believe this will ever happen with cryptocurrency or not, you can't ignore that it's grown (by users, development, and many other metrics) faster than most other technological revolutions.

The internet took roughly 20-30 years to reach mass adoption. Cryptocurrency is about 10 years in, and while there are many active users, there user experience is still behind that of most payment options, and smart contracts which enable a host of other decentralized financial primitives are really only a few years old.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#108

Post by svennek » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

throwaway554 wrote: post #88

svennek wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you end up in jail... sadly. That is my point. If your country is "sufficiently bad" bitcoin will not (and cannot) help you in the long run.

Until you cross the borders and move all your wealth with you by memorizing 12 words.

Tell that to the the people of the ex-DDR, the North Korea and REALLY targeted individuals..

Sadly there exists no sure way to secure you belongings if the other party is sufficiently motivated to strip you of them (or your life)..

You can also be killed/robbed outside of your country by intelligence officers of your country...

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#109

Post by rocqua » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

ThalesX wrote: post #7

There’s only so much to be said for retaining my curiosity after years and years of getting shouted about it by people who have no understanding of what they are peddling. I’m actively involved in the space, I explored my curiosity through designing a few DApps, building some coins, the usual. The tech is interesting, the approach is worthwhile, the whole FOMO pyramid on top of it is just noise and I wish it would st…

That's a good point.

I can really see how the constant hype and downplaying of downsides has fatigued a lot of technically minded people. If most of the discussions about a topic are over-hyped and on shaky ground, it makes sense to be skeptical about any new discussion. Especially if that new discussion is actually quite technical, and needs either niche mathematics or deep knowledge of existing blockchain.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#110

Post by prohobo » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

LispShmisp wrote: post #71

prohobo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd say your entire approach is antithetical to healthy discussion: insinuating anyone who is interested in crypto is technically inept, and turning the discussion into a 2-sides polarization. There's no use in talking about crypto in a sincere way now because of the way its been politicized. I tried recently to explain to someone that cryptographically codifying law and contracts can be beneficial in a lot of…

Did they ask you to explain it? Did you talk about shortcomings of it? Most of the crypto related posts feels like advertising/preaching. Issues with their proposed solutions are rarely focused on and when they're brought up, hand waving begins. I think this is a consequence of crypto proponents using mostly same talking points, usually decentralization/some libertarian dream. Technical discussions are rarely initiat…

No, they didn't. Most people just make inflammatory comments or make extremely complex "gotcha" claims that aren't true, which need both parties to be cooperative to resolve. I was busy trying to make arguments against wild claims, and ended up saying dumb things like "Amazon Alexas burn more energy in a year by sitting idle in people's homes than the entire Bitcoin network does"; things that are technically true but don't resolve the attacker's underlying unease - and so are unhelpful.

Crypto has a lot of real problems like the current markets which seem to just be re-enforcing the worst aspects of capitalism; and other issues like: costs, scalability, lack of connection to physical objects/systems (the NFT problem), dispute resolution, etc.

These problems are huge, especially if blockchain tech ever becomes mainstream. The problem is that discussion of these topics - in casual discussions at least - gets derailed by ideological flag waving. To me it's like Occupy Wall Street being derailed by wokeists; they weren't able to mobilize anything meaningful because they were bogged down by delusional anxieties.