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Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

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101–110 of 176 posts

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#101

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

Serverless? There are always servers. APIs don't exist in a vacuum or scale magically.

If you don't understand how to build what's underneath, then you don't understand what's involved and are at the mercy of vendors or someone else.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#102

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

No sane business is saving money with Heroku. It offers zero mid or back tier flexibility. PaaS and serverless are here to stay.

Heroku is so damn expensive. It's basically worthless because it's competing with free.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#103

Does anyone make anything that just takes your docker compose file and run it really easily with a lot more features? I’m happy with compose. It works. I know swarm was supposed to solve this but is dead now (?).

ECS can take a docker-compose file and run it, although it is not turnkey. You still need to create the ECS cluster, set up auto scaling, and create any load balancers needed so I would not say it is “simple”, but it is definitely simpler than k8s.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#104

I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far from its optimum with serverless and microservices. The main issue I have with both is the huge complexity and friction between how it runs on a developer machine vs how it runs in production. For me the sweet spot is monolith(-ish) 12-factor applications packaged up in containers. In this setup I can just `docker-compose up` my dependencies (postgres, redis, rabbitmq, oth…

There are three main classes of services:

0. 12factor applications

1. Backend datastores

2. Infrastructure and miscellaneous, which is sort of turtles all the way down.

Disambiguating them is key to maintain proper infrastructure of any kind.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#107
post #25

I very much hope to see Hashicorp Nomad getting more traction, as a simpler, yet feature rich solution to probably most use cases in our industry. Pretty interesting to see the adoption of podman and also micro-vms (like fly.io does it), and other Nomad providers that does not nessasarly need to be docker. I know there are great terraform modules out there already, but i wonder if many of Hashicorp's products soon wi…

Mh. We are pushing production to nomad, and I'm not sure, because Nomad has a different focus than K8s.

K8s in my book tries to solve arbitrarily complex deployment problems. To do so, K8s overall accepts being a complex monster. You have to fully commit to use K8s, you have to put everything you have into K8s, and then K8s solves a staggering amount of problems.

Nomad is much simpler. A good way I've found to describe nomad is: Nomad+Consul+Vault is essentially a distributed initd/SystemD + cron + secured store. That's all. It's powerful, because there are no problems you can't solve by scheduling + discovering VMs, containers and applications. But it's at a more fundamental and lower level, and it requires more work to utilize well. It's also less of a jump compared to K8s, but some stuff more or less solved in K8s is not in Nomad, so far.

I strongly enjoy working with nomad and we see other operations teams grow interested, because nomad functions and handles similar to something like VMWare. Sure, containers are weird, but it can do VMs, and it's still similar. For example, for an ES cluster on hardware with grafana/kibana/2 logstashes running "somewhere on these hosts", nomad is very pleasant to use.

But I doubt nomad will be as hyped as K8s because e.g. you cannot throw a helmchart at it to create a postgres/patroni cluster on abstracted storage for a servide with a relational storage requirement, as the hyperabstracted way needs.

CSI support exists and is being enhanced, but you will still need a CSI provider, and e.g. the GlusterFS CSI provider got eaten by K8s and now you're stuck with S3 or running Ceph. And running Ceph is a ... thing. And for example, you'll have to run the nomad autoscaler besides it, and other orchestration and management systems around it that K8s has, or has integrations for. There's just a lot of edges to handle, if you could just buy hosted K8s.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#108
post #76

- More serverless platforms with more heterogeneity. Each one will be better at certain things. fly.io seems to be specializing on computing at the edge (networking). Others will be better at GPU computation; others will have different types of storage and databases. - More people using multiple clouds. Because putting all your eggs in Amazon's will start to be less acceptable, for cost reasons and lock-in reasons. K…

As an addendum to the specialization thing, I think that Snapchat was built on Google App Engine basically because it happened to have a really good XMPP gateway or something like that? If anyone has details I'd be interested

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#109
post #20

Something much, much, simpler. I'm not convinced that /for most companies/ k8s adds enough value when compared to all the added complexity (not to mention the yaml soup!).

Working for a small startup that uses both k8s and more traditional infrastructure, I've found the yaml soup that comprises a reliable k8s system is not much worse than the yaml/hcl soup of our ansible/terraform provisioning scripts.

Try Pulumi.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#110

I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far from its optimum with serverless and microservices. The main issue I have with both is the huge complexity and friction between how it runs on a developer machine vs how it runs in production. For me the sweet spot is monolith(-ish) 12-factor applications packaged up in containers. In this setup I can just `docker-compose up` my dependencies (postgres, redis, rabbitmq, oth…

What I'd really like to hear is the story for after you're gone and the business has several hundred services spread out over 5-10 years of development, with varying historical stratums, and plenty of them being left on life support, where the business just doesn't want to pay barely anything to keep them running.

And then how does the teams dealing with cross cutting concerns like security, logging and monitoring deal with them.

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