Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#101

Post by bluGill » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

mectors wrote: post #52

The lack of differentiation between two EV brands will not be the major disruption to the car industry. It will be the ownership. In 3 to 5 years we should see autonomous vehicles that are offered by robot taxi networks. The same car can offer transport services to 5 families or more and still each family will be able to use the car to similar levels they are currently used to. Customers will no longer have to worry…

There are a few people who use a car rarely enough that a taxi is cheaper than owning, and if self driving cars eliminate the driver and thus drive down costs a few more people will join that number. However these people generally live someplace where local public transit is good, and parking is expensive.

For the vast majority of suburb dwellers, buying a car will be more cost effective. Most of the costs are the same either way, but you have no need for a profit margin, and you don't pay as much fuel (electrons are still fuel!) to run around empty getting to the next passenger. By owning your own car you can in turn leave your stuff in it just in case. By owning your car you ensure it is there when you want to go as opposed to waiting for one to arrive.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#102

Post by dreamcompiler » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

bin_bash wrote: post #81

natch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-comp... “they were surprised to learn that Superchargers could not be used to fill up their Taycan.” Sounds about right.

I think EU-spec Teslas use CCS so they would actually plug in (though you can't actually use them). You can also use Tesla destination chargers even in the US on any EV so I feel it's not totally unreasonable to be surprised by this. EDIT: I incorrectly said CHAdeMO

EU Teslas use CCS, not CHAdeMO. Which makes the fact that in the US Tesla sells a CHAdeMO adaptor but not a CCS adaptor seem very strange.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#103

Post by asdff » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

Arguably were are already there. Every car on the market gets to the speed limit quick enough and gets about the same MPG, so therefore cars are already in this nike shoe to balenciaga state, since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their cars dangerously on public roads).

I think in this light you will have to look and see how luxury cars differentiate, even though a Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and v6 Honda Accord all go very fast today. Luxury brands have fit and finish that isn't found on the similarly speedy v6 Honda accord. If Tesla would like to remain competitive in their price bracket, they will have to start offering an interior and overall fit and finish worthy of standing among other $30k-$40k cars on the market today. IMO from my own personal experiences with Teslas, some base model cars from other manufacturers on the market have less rattly and cheap feeling interiors, and a giant iPad is a poor (distracting) crutch.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#104

Post by IshKebab » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #100

For almost everyone out there, they don't care if it's gas or electric or how many MPG it gets. They care about the look, how it feels to drive, and what features are offered inside. If everything goes fully electric, we'll just be back into pre-2000 territory, where every car was ICE and they differentiated on handling, interior features, styling, and engine power.

> For almost everyone out there, they don't care if it's gas or electric or how many MPG it gets

What? MPG is one of the things people care about most! At least in the UK.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#105

Post by m0llusk » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

Support and maintenance. We are already seeing electric cars equipped with unwanted sensors doing unwanted recording and being used to lock down potential opportunities for user service while integrating vehicle function with financing and billing status. Lots of people have been locked out of their hybrids when the batteries failed or were drained. Selling electric vehicles that have limited tracking and the fullest possible user empowerment including niceties like opening the doors without needing the batteries will bring a premium.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#106

Post by teeray » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

Snow and cold weather performance is critical where I live. The game changer will be if I can start an EV at -20F after it’s been sitting out all night and safely drive it through a blizzard.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#107

Post by ak217 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

screye wrote: post #91

> Electric Porsche Porsche and certain other manufacturers will always be handling kings. (even if the lower center of gravity, means that all electric cars kind of handle well) > Manufacturing consistency and quality We see Tesla struggle with this, But, Toyota and Honda have this down to a science like no other manufacturer. There is a reason the Civic/Corolla/Camry/Accord quadrilateral is impenetrable. Excellence…

I am not a fan of Elon's more exotic behaviors but I think Tesla is as committed to excellence in manufacturing as Toyota or Honda. They are just at an earlier growth stage where they have to stand up processes from scratch.

Toyota and Honda have a reputation for reliability, but it is by no means a given. Toyota had to low key rebuild a division after the unintended acceleration scandal. Honda has had persistent issues with their transmissions. It's a never ending battle and there is a limited number of employees who understand how to build the culture necessary for it. If someone manages to poach them or somehow impede your global operations (all automakers have intercontinental supply chains), you're in trouble.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#108

Post by decafninja » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #104

jedberg wrote: post #100

For almost everyone out there, they don't care if it's gas or electric or how many MPG it gets. They care about the look, how it feels to drive, and what features are offered inside. If everything goes fully electric, we'll just be back into pre-2000 territory, where every car was ICE and they differentiated on handling, interior features, styling, and engine power.

> For almost everyone out there, they don't care if it's gas or electric or how many MPG it gets What? MPG is one of the things people care about most! At least in the UK.

Probably truer of the US market than most other countries. Unless you're really living close to poverty or a pennypincher, I feel most people in the US don't care about minor MPG differences.

Sure, they'll care about the MPG difference between Tiny3CylSubcompactHatchback and GiantThreeSeatV8SUV, but not between two GenericMidsized4cylOrV6FamilyCUVs.

Which is why you'd see something like 4cylinder BMW 5 or 7 series in Europe a long while back, but in the US until relatively recently a 4cyl 5series would have been seen as a joke for an expensive luxury car.

Even now I don't think the smallest engine size tier of vehicles get imported into the US - we get (at least) one level up as our "entry" trim.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#109

Post by asdff » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #84

neogodless wrote: post #29

56 million cars sold last year. How many do you think were bought because they do not create emissions, or because of any serious consideration of the engineering behind them? People buy a Toyota Corolla or Prius because it's below the median price, reliable and efficient. They will buy it and then never think about it again because it'll "just work." People buy a Ford F150 because they either have some real use for…

Thanks for writing what I couldn't figure out how to put into words. I'll add one more thing: there are enough cars sold that there is enough market to support developing lots of different cars.

What is interesting is seeing the market contract in recent years. After 2008, a lot of car companies killed their performance models or lines off entirely, despite the bull run presumably adding more money in peoples pocket in years since. Car manufactureres are realizing they don't need to develop a lot of cars. That it's a bad business decision to build a 400hp turbocharged mitsubishi lancer and sell it to the tiny market of 30 year olds with money for a $45k car but no children to keep their sense in check, if the average consumer by and large just wants an SUV to go the grocery store. Some manufacturers like Ford don't even really sell sedans anymore, so it goes beyond even just performance cars to anything that isn't a 30mpg $24,000 sport utility box.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#110

Post by dreamcompiler » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

bin_bash wrote: post #83

pmorici wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taycan is not price competitive with Model S and won’t be performance competitive when the S plaid ships this quarter.

The new Corvette is as fast as the 911 for half the price but that's not stopping people from buying 911s

Another data point: Tesla Model 3 Performance version will go 0-60 in 3.1 seconds (not quite as fast as the Corvette's 2.9) for $52k; about $10k less than the Corvette.