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Ask HN: How to learn sales?

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Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#101

Post by longnguyen »

100-xyz wrote: post #79
scapecast wrote: post #20

First time founder here who came from sales at a big consulting firm, and then and then had to develop the whole marketing and sales stack for our startup. Most of the books recommended in this thread assume that you're working for a established firm, with product / market fit, etc. Clearly that's not the case for a start-up. Read up on what Pete Kanzanjy publishes https://www.foundingsales.com/ - it covers the the "…

Heads up. The foundingsales website took my username and password but did not give me access to the material. Instead its putting me through a "Buy the Book" or "Register to Read" cycle.

I had to allow third-party cookies for those 2 sites

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#102

Post by kazanjy »

cantcopy wrote: post #100
kazanjy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tested this with a new account and it’s working fine from mobile Chrome. It returns you to the home page on registration so perhaps access one of the chapters? Like this one to start: https://www.foundingsales.com/1-mindset-changes

I have the same isssue. I think it may be a Safari issue. Works fine for me on chrome not Safari.

That’s super annoying. Are you able to access this hyperlink while logged in in safari? https://www.foundingsales.com/10-early-sales-management

It might also be that the redirect after registration goes back to the home page, and the chapter buttons are below the fold if one doesn’t scroll down. Probably would be better to redirect to table of contents after registration. I’ll see if that can be configured through Memberspace.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#103

Post by gumby »

Many years ago I took the Dale Carnegie Sales Course. It and the Xerox course were the ones everyone talked about back then (90s). It was practical and I used the material each week (I was also a company founder, but by the time I did that we were doing a couple of million a month).

The students included a couple of guys with a T-shirt stand on the beach, a woman who sold ADT security systems and a couple of people, who sold semiconductor manufacturing equipment. I didn’t just learn a good model and get practice with it but the fact that much of what we learned applied to all the sales cycles (from 3 minutes to 3 years) was itself quite enlightening. I still use today what I learned back then.

Also, later: I “carried a bag” meaning I had a mortgage in Palo Alto, a wife whose visa didn’t allow her to work, and lived on commission. Really taught me to sell!

Like riding a bike, you can get tips from books and video but you just have to get out there and sell.

(I have never become comfortable with cold calling, though I can do it)

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#104

Post by kinghtown »

jppope wrote: post #88
kinghtown wrote: post #77

Hey, I worked in sales for years. So did my mother. I started B2B sales when I was 16. Don’t “learn” sales. A lot of reading material and courses could actually negatively effect you by causing you to overthink things. At best, you will come across as calculating and at worst you’ll lose deals due to getting lost in the weeds. Here’s two things: Whenever you deal with someone, try to conceptualize yourself as a consu…

I would argue against this comment... it is very useful to actually learn the culture and the techniques. Not that the general advice here is in poor taste, just saying that simple concepts won't help you fully understand something that is inherently complex.

And I would disagree with your comment on similar grounds. There is undoubtedly a lot of nuance and experience in sales, technical requirements depending on the industry, but forgive me, I’m not going to outline everything in a comment.

I am arguing that a book won’t cut it and may do more harm than good. Advice from great salespeople must be taken with a grain of salt. Because the core of sales, making deals, is more feeling than logic.

I’ve seen people sell extremely well with zero experience as well as seasoned pros who are inherently terrible at the job. Salespeople overthink the strategy and lose sight of what really makes money: making that motherfucker say yes. If you want to do that then you need to really embrace your role properly and forget about being a shark or a shooter or whatever. You are helping someone or some organization either make more money, save money, or do their job easier than before. Everything else is bullshit strategy for guys who don’t actually believe in what they are selling.

Edit: that reply could be misconstrued as aggressive but I’m set in my ways, which I know work best.

If OP doesn’t want to mentor under a sales manager in a business and learn the job that way, then as a practical suggestion:

Skip the self help books. Zig Ziggler and how to make friends and influence people, etc etc. Skip all that.

Get a College textbook on being an Entrepreneur. Something that will help you with the nuts and bolts backend stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#105

Post by peignoir »

Hi there, my 15 years of experience was : developer / Sysadmin / tech consulting / management consulting / sales for a consulting firm / entrepreneur (many startups and non profits)

Sales for a startups depends of course of the product b2b vs b2c is one dimension and venture backed or bootstrap is another.

For b2c I would recommend lean startup (the product should ideally sell itself / marketing is key)

For b2b you need a list of contact and you need to reach out it’s a volume game to conversion like in b2c the difference is “you are the add” you should equally test different message and tweak them and the product for conversion (assuming the product is good)

Venture capitalists / angels also need a sales pitch. The pitch is closer to a story telling each of them is expecting something different and the beat way to get in is via warm intro (works also for b2b)

Nothing mind blowing here as on how to train for it I would suggest to join a software company and do sales (b2b or b2c) it’s easier to start with a known sales pitch and a known product / market than having to work on figuring it out on the way.

I will end with a funny comment yet important I think it was from union square venture who said to be careful to invest in a startup with a great sales person as it might send a false positive on growth (startups especially b2c should grow via marketing not direct sales as for b2b if the founder is an amazing sales person it might be hard to scale that)

Hope that helps

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#106

Post by moneywoes »

sskates wrote: post #19

As an engineer turned founder, your instinct to jump in and start doing it is correct. It’s hard to learn from books. I never did, neither did the successful engineers turned sales people that I know. The key is learning to read each situation so you can apply the right approach. You also seem self aware which will help you learn faster. My biggest advice is get a coach/mentor/consultant who you talk with once per we…

What did you learn from Mitch that you could not do yourself?

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#107

Post by gnicholas »

kazanjy wrote: post #97

Hey there, my friend Waseem tipped me off to your question. Your situation is why I wrote Founding Sales: https://www.foundingsales.com/ The full text is available online on that Squarespace site. I wrote it after selling my last company - it chronicles what I learned going from a PMM / PM at VMware to a business generalist founder, who then had to learn how to sell, and then manage sales people. Also, this deck will…

Came here to suggest this. It has good tactical advice, but also good big-picture strategies. And it will give you vocabulary to talk about experiences you may have had but were not able to fully understand/contextualize.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#108

Post by hexbinencoded »

You can't get real sales or business experience from a book. I would say start from the basics in terms of 1-on-1 sales. First, develop a tolerance to rejection; sell something people almost never want like chocolate bars or magazines door-to-door thousands of times. Then, learn to qualify and overcome objections. Without the interpersonal skills of selling, data is worthless and analysis is procrastination. If someone can't hustle, it doesn't matter how great their good or service is because no one will know about it.

Another consideration is to find an equal cofounder who is a superb hustler. Hack + hustle = win.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#109

Post by mindhash »

skmurphy wrote: post #15

You need to separate sales from marketing. Sales is a conversation, marketing is a broadcast. Marketing gets the phone to ring, sales takes the call and closes the deal. For B2B sales resembles project management: the goal is not to convince everyone to buy your product or service but to diagnose their needs and only engage with firms that will benefit. For larger deals you "sell with your ears" as much as you talk.…

Came to say exactly this. As a first time entrepreneur its important to learn how to spread ideas. Sales comes after.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn sales?

#110

Post by silexia »

hexbinencoded wrote: post #108

You can't get real sales or business experience from a book. I would say start from the basics in terms of 1-on-1 sales. First, develop a tolerance to rejection; sell something people almost never want like chocolate bars or magazines door-to-door thousands of times. Then, learn to qualify and overcome objections. Without the interpersonal skills of selling, data is worthless and analysis is procrastination. If someo…

I personally have sold over $20 million in online marketing and website development services and have a business with 180 full time employees. The parents advice in this post is absolutely correct. The only way to learn to sell is to do it.

You have to sit with hundreds of prospects and learn to listen to what they are saying. To read their nonverbal cues. To respect what they are saying and customize your offerings to match. To leave your ego at the door.

You need to prepare for tons of rejections and even more ghostings. You need to be ready for people to tell you every reason imaginable why you aren't good enough... Then you need to pick yourself up and explain to them clear and politely why you are their best option.

Most importantly, never give up. Just trying over and over again until you are sick of hearing yourself talk is the only way to master sales.

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