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Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#101

You need to get a small win of some sort. It doesn't matter what. Just aim at the smallest win you can get on the work. If you fail at that, aim for a smaller win. There will be at least a tiny win you can manage. You will feel better. Then double down.

Was gonna say exactly this. Doing something small and actually accomplishing makes a huge difference because it tells your brain I am capable of doing things. From there it becomes easier to slowly raise the bar of what your brain thinks is doable and thus things that you'll psychologically be able to go ahead and do.

It's really important also to make sure you don't aim for things that are too hard and fail too often. A bit of failure is okay but if your ratio of failure to success too low you'll lose self confidence and it becomes harder to get into a sort of "flow" of progress.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#102

I'm going to guess that you're going to get more mileage out of cutting something out of your life than in adopting yet another mindset, habit, drug or whatever. Some possible things that might work: * youtube/netflix * social media * news * sugar * video games These are the things your brain goes towards automatically as an easier "win" than in facing the harder problem. Cutting them out will leave room for you to f…

ADHD can be exacerbated by low energy. Some psychiatrists recommend eating sugar to help maintain focus. As for the other stuff, if I cut those out I get miserable and more easily bored. Better to use them as carrots; "if I do 45 minutes of coding I can play 1 game of Rocket League."

> As for the other stuff, if I cut those out I get miserable and more easily bored.

In my experience this is temporary. It takes about 1-2 weeks for my brain to adjust to the "new normal" of not playing video games or binging youtube. These 1-2 weeks are quite boring, but after that I am able to find things I would normally be bored by interesting. It's as if there is a "boredness set point", and once you cut out the most stimulating activities, less stimulating things like coding or reading will become more interesting to you.

That said, I like video games and youtube videos, so I often go for a middle-ground approach like you.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#103

There is the potential that you have ADHD, because what you're describing sounds similar to my situation. I eventually ended up on stimulant medication to help, but there's non-stimulant medication available (if you're opposed to eating amphetamines for breakfast), as well as counselling and other treatment options that don't involve medication. Even if you don't want to seek professional treatment, you could look up…

Fellow ADHD sufferer here to second this. Thinking about ADHD as a deficit of motivation, which is much more accurate than an attention-oriented view, tends to clarify this sort of situation.

Anybody feels that ADHD or similar issues are often a sign that you're not doing things that you need to to be happy ? Like running after something for the wrong reasons ?

Kinda like Bukowski "don't try" ?

ps: to explain more, there were times where

a) I was slowly but surely inspired by a topic and would just keep wondering and thinking about it, 'hard' or not, it was similar to walking a mental park

b) I was motivated by desires (greatness, potential financial gains, social status, some faith that the outcome would make me feel happy) but now my feelings about them have changed so it feels pointless. I feel a lot better when doing things that have no real goal but actually procure a lightweight joy.

For instance, I used to equate more study to more possibilities and capacity to 1) create more (joy) 2) get a good job. But my experience was that these efforts weren't useful in reality. Even though I got some FP moocs, solved problems alone, I'm still stuck too often, and recruiters don't give a damn. It all erodes your happiness/ROI center.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#104
Find something you care about.

It's hard to push through tough problems to achieve a goal that you don't care about achieving. The pressure you grew up in now needs to come from yourself, or more reasonably, the situations you put yourself in. For example: take the life's savings of every family member and friend you have, and go try to make more money with it. The pressure will surely arrive.

An alternative possibility: It may be that your career is not high on your priority list, and you'd rather make some money so that you can fund a passion, travel the world, raise a family, or do something else. If those are the things that you are passionate about, a promotion will not fill the hole where they are missing (for long)

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone doesn’t have to have ADHD to shirk from hard problems. Expecting technical/intellectual problems to be easy to solve is something that is drilled into most people by the school system, which rarely if ever present problems that take more than a few minutes to solve, and pretty much never expect students to try tackling problems that require weeks of effort. The result is that when many people encounter a hard…

> There is probably an influence from inherent personality differences, but I would speculate that building up stamina for tackling hard problems comes down substantially to practice. I was diagnosed with ADHD my senior year of college. Before that, the mindset you're advocating got close to breaking me.

My “mindset” (if you can call it that) is that most people don’t get much experience tackling hard problems, at least up through school. In light of that, what I would “advocate” is that people should try to get practice working on problems at their current level of stamina/ability (which might be very low), and slowly work their way up, instead of beating themselves up when a problem much more difficult than what they were used to seemed like an impossible challenge.

Maybe you can elaborate about what “mindset” you were thinking of, and why it came close to breaking you? I suspect you were misunderstanding my intended message, and that the “mindset” you are imagining is pretty far from my own set of beliefs.

Note that before I was not advocating anything; only stating an observation that most people don’t get much practice tackling hard problems, and that people with or without ADHD can have difficulty tackling hard problems. Do you think that is inaccurate? It seems pretty uncontroversial to me. I know a lot of people who have difficulty with hard problems, and some of them definitely don’t have ADHD.

* * *

I am taking care of a 3.5 year old full time, so I’ll give you some relevant examples from that context:

If I try to read a book aloud which is much too hard for him (say a novel pitched at teenagers), he gets bored and wanders away. But his attention span, vocabulary, grammar, etc. are gradually improving, so the books he understands now (e.g. Pippi Longstocking, The Cricket in Times Square) are much more sophisticated than the books he could understand a year ago (e.g. Henry and Mudge, Frog and Toad), which are in turn much more sophisticated than the books he was interested in a year before that (e.g. Go Dog Go, The Very Hungry Caterpillar).

If we try to work on some 1-player logic puzzle games, the ones that say “age 7+” on the box are currently too difficult for him and he gets bored/frustrated and wants to do something else. The ones that say “age 5+” are pretty good, and he can do them with some external help. The ones that say “age 3+” are getting to be easy by now, and he can do them independently.

If we go out to practice balancing on a vehicle, a 2-wheeled scooter is now getting to be okay if we go carefully, but 6 months ago it was too difficult and therefore very frustrating. A year ago, he was just starting to figure out the (pedal-free) balance bike, and now he can zoom around on it. If I tried to get him to ride a skateboard I predict he would fall off and not want to try (heck, that’s probably what I would do if I tried to ride a skateboard).

One of my son’s friends has no experience with a balance bike, and is embarrassed to try in front of anyone, because my son (who has more than a year of practice) can zoom all around, whereas any kid just starting finds it to be a great challenge. But the same kid can swing across the monkey bars, something my son cannot, because that’s something that boy has practiced for a few months.

* * *

Activities like writing computer programs, playing music, writing essays, playing sports, cooking, etc. are similar: they require many challenging skills which must be slowly built up over the course of years of practice, and are very daunting for someone who is unprepared. The way to get better at these is to start at your current level and practice, in a playful and low-pressure environment, slowly improving until you can handle high-level challenges.

And the same is true of meta skills which apply to many domains like searching and reading academic literature in a field you are unfamiliar with, coming up with a few choices of high-level problem solving strategies and then picking one to apply, breaking the problem solving process down into smaller manageable chunks until you get down to a chunk small enough to just dive in, taking organized notes, trying many small examples when you don’t yet have a solid conceptual understanding, finding and tackling a simpler related problem instead, stopping occasionally while working to check if you’re making progress and if the current strategy still seems promising, recognizing that you are badly stuck and finding the right person to ask for help ...

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#106
post #91

This may sound flippant but it’s deadly serious: Just Do It. Put your head down and do the work and stop not doing it. I spoke to my counselor once about going to the gym and I was expecting to hear him talk about emotional issues that might be preventing me going etc and he said: “there are some things in life that you simply have to take action on. Going to the gym is one.” Nothing more fancy to it that that. Do th…

This is not good advice and if anything can make people feel worse about themselves and have the opposite effect. Do you also think that an alcoholic should just "do it" (i.e. stop drinking) or a depressed person should just "get over it"? Where's the line (I know I took your example a bit further to prove a point).. Our brains are complex and it takes all kinds of psychological "tricks" to make progress on certain t…

I don’t agree with your response.

>> Do you also think that an alcoholic should just "do it" (i.e. stop drinking) or a depressed person should just "get over it"?

False equivalence.

Not doing work is neither depression nor alcoholism.

If you find you get to a point in life where essentially you have fallen into lazy habits then you fix it by taking action.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#107
Me too.

One way to look at it is that it's a signal that you're working the wrong thing.

Something that's worked for me is to think of the contexts where you feel like you are motivated or productive, and then try to put yourself into those contexts. For example, on my own I have a hard time getting started and I get paralyzed by indecision. But when I'm on a team I feel like I can't let the other people down, and somehow the paralysis just disappears.

Good luck, and don't be too hard on yourself. You're a normal human.

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#108
post #42

I had a similar problem where the the bigger / the more complex the task in front of me was, the more my brain resisted to getting started and the more i procrasitnated. I came up with a fundamentally "agile" solution: break the problems down into smaller tasks until the first task is too small to offer resistance. E.g. rather than "write architecture specification", start with "outline the heads for architecture spe…

> Almost everything in my to do list these days can be executed in under 10 minutes.

That's pure genius!

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#109

There is the potential that you have ADHD, because what you're describing sounds similar to my situation. I eventually ended up on stimulant medication to help, but there's non-stimulant medication available (if you're opposed to eating amphetamines for breakfast), as well as counselling and other treatment options that don't involve medication. Even if you don't want to seek professional treatment, you could look up…

Someone doesn’t have to have ADHD to shirk from hard problems. Expecting technical/intellectual problems to be easy to solve is something that is drilled into most people by the school system, which rarely if ever present problems that take more than a few minutes to solve, and pretty much never expect students to try tackling problems that require weeks of effort. The result is that when many people encounter a hard…

James Clear in book `Atomic Habits` talks about the Goldilocks rule, https://jamesclear.com/goldilocks-rule

which recommends to work on problems slightly higher than your capability

Re: Ask HN: How do I overcome mental laziness?

#110

There is the potential that you have ADHD, because what you're describing sounds similar to my situation. I eventually ended up on stimulant medication to help, but there's non-stimulant medication available (if you're opposed to eating amphetamines for breakfast), as well as counselling and other treatment options that don't involve medication. Even if you don't want to seek professional treatment, you could look up…

I am currently getting help with ADD and this is a similar situation to me as well. However, I was diagnosed because I'm trying to get help for insomnia. Specifically, I have a lot of trouble falling asleep. I'm just adding another data point in case anyone is relating to OP, the comment I replied to, AND has difficulty falling asleep. It's always good to have a clear picture of what your mental health is like.
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