Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#101

Post by elevenoh » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

>all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge.

Your self-examination hasn't yet led you to realize this ain't 'all you really want'?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#102

Post by onion2k » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

brankoB wrote: post #93

onion2k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't matter though. The point of plussing is about how you word your criticism so people don't feel the need to be defensive or antagonistic. If there's a problem that can't be solved for a while there's world of difference between saying "Your code is wrong. This is a problem we can't solve for weeks." and "You've made a great start and this code is going to be really useful as a foundation to build on, but…

What if the code is absolutely terrible and needs to be scrapped ASAP?

Then your hiring process, the team lead's leadership skills, and whole team's requirements gathering and code review processes all need some attention.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#103

Post by wolco » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

It sounds like every conversation has to be a learning event for you and the average person isn't interesting enough.

You need to learn how to entertain yourself and start seeing more complexity.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#104

Post by watwut » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:02 AM UTC

randcraw wrote: post #16

People are 100X more sensitive to negativity than positivity. So if you feel the need to say something negative, either wait for someone else to say it so you can laugh and agree, or say nothing at all. Likewise, offer your opinion as little as possible unless it's positive or you've been explicitly asked for criticism. And even then describe how the thing could be improved, not how it sucked or how much.

This is how at least one project ended half done at time when it should have been done. Everything was great until reality came to kick us.

There is absolutely such a thing as knowing how not to be asshole about negative opinion, but never saying it in the long term harms projects.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#105

Post by tehlike » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:03 AM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #8

Not everyone responds the same. I hated when people would use fluffy language: "would it be okay if you could do X?" Dammit...just tell me to do X. I know you're not really asking me you're just trying to be nice for something that has to be done. Well... turns out just because I like to hear feedback or orders directly, doesn't mean everyone else does. Part of why your manager treads carefully is because they have t…

This is important. I get along with a bunch of people once they realize when im direct, i dont mean to insult them, but until that relationship is functional, knowing how to say things become really important. For some, you can never be straight and it is ok.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#106

Post by profalseidol » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:04 AM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #8

Not everyone responds the same. I hated when people would use fluffy language: "would it be okay if you could do X?" Dammit...just tell me to do X. I know you're not really asking me you're just trying to be nice for something that has to be done. Well... turns out just because I like to hear feedback or orders directly, doesn't mean everyone else does. Part of why your manager treads carefully is because they have t…

Good advice. This is what should be said in place of "effective communication".

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#107

Post by ajxs » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:06 AM UTC

cannonedhamster wrote: post #78

ajxs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The friction I'm describing is what inevitably occurs when workers start openly discussing pay and realise that some among them are paid much more than others. I've seen it happen multiple times in different workplaces. Some longer-term employees discover that more junior, less experienced employees are being paid maybe 30% more and pretty much mentally check out instantly. They become instantly absolutely demoralise…

Yes and this isn't your fault, no matter how much employers want you to feel. It's entirely up to a company how much they offer employees. Think about this, they could at any moment increase the pay off every employee without as single complaint from employees. They make a conscious choice to not increase the pay of more senior employees intentionally because they know the employees won't leave to get more money. You…

You're completely right. I'm glad to see that you're taking the side of the employee in instances like this. In this particular case, it wasn't me who became critically demoralised. It was another good employee who'd been there for years, who discovered he was being paid much less than everyone else. He resigned within a short time period of the group discussion. You're totally right about individual bargaining power. As someone who's worked as a software-engineer contracting in fintech you'll find yourself at the spearhead of capitalism ( as envisioned by someone like Milton Friedman ), for better or worse.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#108

Post by watwut » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:06 AM UTC

cannonedhamster wrote: post #64

jdavis703 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to read this twice. But just to confirm what you mean: We should take our personal feelings out of a debate -- but surely we must still remain in the debate?

If you're debating you've already lost the debate. The effective way to win a debate is not to have one. You either convince the other person the idea was theirs, which is easier than it sounds, or you get them to argue your point for you at which point it is their idea. Learning how to do this takes effort and a willingness to realize how little one truly knows about the art of effective speaking. You'll also begin…

> You either convince the other person the idea was theirs

No. I used to read and follow advice like this. End result is that your ideas are considered other peoples ideas. They get credit and are rewarded, not you. Doing this regularly literally harms you and makes you to be perceived submissive, unsuitable for leadership positions.

Moreover, it makes you great target for bad actors.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#109

Post by known » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

Protect yourself from

    Machiavellianism(manipulate/deceive others)
    Psychopathy(lack of remorse/empathy)
    Sadism(pleasure in suffering of others) 
    Narcissism(egotism/self-obsession)

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#110

Post by mytailorisrich » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

Hiding contempt behind a smile.