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Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

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Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#101

Post by donjoe »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #55

I don't have any specific links, but ISTR that INCOSE has a lot of publications & recommended practices, etc. However, nothing beats working with an experienced Systems Engineer (as in: someone with a degree in Systems Engineering who has practiced it for many years) if you have the opportunity. I learned something every day working with those guys. https://www.incose.org/ProductsPublications/Papers-Presentat...

Their 'handbook' is a great source, older versions can be found online for free:

[pdf] http://disi.unal.edu.co/dacursci/sistemasycomputacion/docs/S...

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#102

Post by sheepmullet »

gaius wrote: post #33
JshWright wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see how a simple input/output streaming model would be helpful in understanding systems theory and design? There are a _lot_ of systems out there that tie together various components with tools that behave a lot like jq (or literally are jq...)

Yes this is how every Unix command line utility works. There is nothing unique about jq in this regard, and there is nothing particularly “systems thinking” about any of them. You can and people have used them for decades without doing any special “systems thinking”.

> There is nothing unique about jq in this regard

Does there have to be?

It's simply an example of a good systems pattern/approach.

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#103

Post by sitkack »

goopthink wrote: post #37

Overcomplicated Building Evolutionary Architecture The Checklist Manifesto The Half Life of Data How Buildings Learn I recommend looking into anything around processes or process-building/management, project management, how incentives work, and how the brain works. The natural world and the corporate world are great examples of systems in action.

See also Jane Jacobs, "The Death and Life of Great American Cities"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_Am...

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#104

Post by bordercases »

pella wrote: post #28
bordercases wrote: post #6

The box-and-arrows paradigm for systems, built in the 50s and enjoying popularity briefly in the 80s, is overrated, and has been outmoded by the likes of complexity theory. This is due to the fact that box-and-arrows systems like those made by Club of Rome to predict civilizational collapse carry strong assumptions as to the nature and structure of underlying variables and as such become very brittle as the size of t…

"complexity theory" is very important! ----- my favorite: New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI) website! * About Complex Systems : "Concept Map" http://www.necsi.edu/guide/concepts/conceptmap.html * Learn: http://necsi.edu/learn.html * "Dynamics of Complex Systems" - Full PDF: http://necsi.edu/publications/dcs/index.html * NECSI Seminar Video Library: http://www.necsi.edu/events/vidlib/ * Research: http://nec…

As much as I love NECSI and Santa Fe Complexity Institute, the way the science is taught is a bit of a grab bag. Way too much emphasis on models that aren't widely applicable to engineering problems, like cellular automata.

Nassim Taleb's collaborations with NESCI are worth their weight, though, and W Brian Arthur out of SFI produces works that I consider actionable for CTOs to get a conceptual handle on their craft. UoM's Scott E Paige is also a good resource on Complex Adaptive Systems in a way that is more unified.

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#105

Post by bordercases »

gaius wrote: post #25
bordercases wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those technologies are known for either how they handle complexity, or the coordination between asynchronous actors with shared resources

Uhhh what? jq is basically an updated sed. One input stream, one output stream, no awareness of anything else

I took your "e.g." to mean inclusive of jq and Erlang, but extensive to the entire list. What I said applies to Erlang, OSes, and LISP, but maybe not to jq (I wouldn't know).

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#106

Post by bordercases »

ismail wrote: post #91

The answer below assumes the following: - You are talking about the application of general systems theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory - You would like to learn to apply 'systems thinking' principals and analysis in many domains or to new problems - You would like to learn to model systems - It is also important to note in many domains there are specific branches of systems theory that may be more ap…

Thanks for recommending stuff no one else did.

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#108

Post by gothy »

weavie wrote: post #26
ioddly wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does one get started building a simple database?

I found Martin Kleppmans book - Designing Data-Intensive Applications ( http://martin.kleppmann.com/ ) to be a great primer.

This is a must read book even if you're not building a database :)

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#109

Post by unixhero »

This is a bit of a non answer, but there was an early MOOC delivered on this topic. I remember this was back in 2010/2011 and the topic was System Thinking.

The course was delivered by a political scientist, but focused entirely on systems thinking.

I will look for it and return; But for now I don't have the name of the course, or the university. I can remember is the year :).

Edit: Found it; https://www.coursera.org/learn/model-thinking

Re: Ask HN: Any recommended resources to develop system thinking?

#110

Post by fouc »

n4r9 wrote: post #39
fouc wrote: post #12

I suspect a strong background in Physics leads to systems thinking. Especially since a couple of my favourite system thinkers are Jacob Lund Fisker and Elon Musk. They both have degrees in physics.

I looked up Fisker and it appears he is someone who combined personal austerity with a decent income in order to retire early. A couple of books, a blog, and several interviews, but that's literally all they're about. How are you interpreting "systems thinking"? What's the difference between "systems thinking" and "analysing and making informed decisions according to one's goals"?

Honestly you'd have to read his book or some of his posts on the forum or blog to get a sense of his system thinking. I can't immediately point out any good links though, the book is a good start. It's not so much a personal finance book but about systems and models, I highly recommend it. At least you'd get the sense of what it looks like when a physicist writes a "personal finance book"
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