Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 222 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#101

Post by lobster_johnson »

I don't know about supercars, but what about simply sleek, small sports cars? Something like the Lotus Elan, Triumph Spitfire or the Porsche 911.

First-gen Mazda Miata is the only low-end car that I know that actually looks reasonably sleek and designed (the second-gen looks like a stupid ordinary car). It's no 911, but it has a nice retro charm.

A well-designed sports car doesn't need lots of power or anything else that should be particularly expensive. It just needs to look good.

There are many answers in this thread about performance, manufacturing tolerances, undermining your high-end brand etc., but none of that should apply here.

I'm asking partly because I think almost all modern cars are hideous, but I also can't afford a 911.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#102

Post by mrexroad »

cjlars wrote: post #92

Pontiac launched the 'Fiero' with styling inspired by the Ferrari 308 in the mid 80s [1]. Around the same time, VW also launched the 'Corrado' as a possible 'successor to the Porsche 944'. Both models were pulled from the market after a few years of production and now have somewhat of a cult following among car collectors. They had good initial interest and sales, but were regarded as too expensive and unreliable, an…

This. As a recovering(?) car nut, the GTI was about the best compromise I could make for a) Bay Area constraints b) more kids than adults c) huge bags of sports gear / bulky items / trips to lumber yard / etc.

Once the last kid is out of house, I'll return to living the dream of a track car (+ multiple sets of tires) as my daily driver.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#103

Post by pixelbash »

lj3 wrote: post #96
vidanay wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, this, this. In simpler terms: You can't build a "Ferarri shaped car" at the same price as an Chevy Impala because the shape is a part of the cost.

It gets even costlier when you take into account that the purpose of the shape of those cars is to increase downforce for better handling around corners. This causes the air drag and the fuel consumption to go through the roof, which is the opposite of what you want out of a four door Mazda.

Not sure that's true. Low drag is incredibly important to the top speeds of those cars. For example a `03 Golf has a CdA of 6.89[1] while a new Ferrari 458 is 0.330[2]. Also, most modern supercars have active aerodynamics to create more downforce at higher speed.

[1]http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_D... [2]http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Ferrari/old/458.html

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#105

Post by seanp2k2 »

pixelbash wrote: post #103
lj3 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even costlier when you take into account that the purpose of the shape of those cars is to increase downforce for better handling around corners. This causes the air drag and the fuel consumption to go through the roof, which is the opposite of what you want out of a four door Mazda.

Not sure that's true. Low drag is incredibly important to the top speeds of those cars. For example a `03 Golf has a CdA of 6.89[1] while a new Ferrari 458 is 0.330[2]. Also, most modern supercars have active aerodynamics to create more downforce at higher speed. [1] http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_D... [2] http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Ferrari/old/458.html

Why not have both? The answer is active aero, which is also expensive to design, implement, and test. Unless it'll be on a track, be cornering at >1G, or going >140mph, it's pretty moot. A cheaper car wouldn't do any of these.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#106

Post by nunez »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #67
markbnj wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good answer. It boils down to what you're paying for. My dad was a suspension and steering engineer at General Motors years ago, and he impressed upon me the number of evolutions these designs go through. The current shape of a standard "middle class car" is highly optimized to give the best trade-off between aerodynamics, fuel efficiency, interior capacity, structural strength, etc. That's what a typical m…

> A Ferrari is entirely optimized to look hot and go fast, and makes a huge number of concessions to those goals. Just try using one as a daily driver and grocery hauler and you'll see why few people do that. But then there are sports cars that are meant as daily drivers, like the BMW M5. The former CTO of Intel said he owns one and uses it as such.

The M5 is meant to be a fast daily driver, so that makes sense

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#108

Post by spullara »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #44
teolemon wrote: post #28

So where does the Tesla Model 3 fit in ? https://www.tesla.com/model3

What do you mean? It's not as if the Model 3 offers anything near Ferrari-level design nor performance. In my (admittedly biased, like anyone's) opinion, designwise it's very similar to the Mazda 3 4-door sedan: https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/mazda3-sedan And before you quote 0-60 times: they are a tiny, tiny part of performance; if you look at actual racetrack performance, even the Model S P100D is miles behind a…

You can't really take a stock Tesla on the track as the battery overheats.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#109

Post by arethuza »

dagw wrote: post #16

Because at the end of the day the Ferrari (or Porsche or Lamborghini) design is not a very comfortable or practical design for day to day use. The (two) people I know who own Porsche sports cars also own a second car.

I've never seen anyone doing a daily commute in a Ferrari or Lambo but I've known a few people who drove their 911s every day. 911s are lot more practical (and a good bit cheaper) than their exotic Italian cousins.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#110

Post by arethuza »

There used to be a fairly inexpensive car, I think it was the Hyandai Coupe, that had an advert where they showed it next to the Ferrari 456 and the two did look very similar.

[Actually that reminded me of a QC that my wife knew who did commute in his 456].

Post reply on HN