Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#101

Post by CapitalistCartr » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

I wanted a particular job; I wanted to get it and succeed at it once I had it. I wanted it more than any job I'd ever wanted. The commute was 44 miles, work started at 7 AM. I quickly realized I could eat breakfast, read the paper at home, then fight rush hour traffic, or reverse that and avoid rush hour. I searched and found a nice deli/diner 1.1 miles from work. That meant getting up at 4:30 AM, which meant going to bed at 8:30 PM. My (now ex) girlfriend picked a pointless fight with me at 8:20 twice the first week. But at 8:30 I went to bed.

All of this might sound crazy, but I wanted it badly, made it paramount, so all the rest flowed from that. If you really want your life to be different, decide what you want and accept the decisions that flow from the goal. People will get in your way, including yourself. I've had the weirdest effects myself of suddenly unable to focus on getting out the door, forgetting where my keys or such are, etc. But keep at it. Make the goal paramount, break through whatever bizzareness appears, and you'll have what you want.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#102

Post by SomeStupidPoint » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 9:10 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #92

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From personal experience, starting with a cookie (I used a piece of chocolate, because small individually wrapped units) is really the most effective way. However, I always congratulated myself (outloud, by name) when giving myself the treat, and pretty soon, the congratulating myself was conditioned as a reward for the activity, letting me drop (most of) the usage of actual treats. Just treat yourself like a particu…

How did you choose your initial rewards? Did you just start experimenting with things that popped in your mint or did you find a list of suggested rewards? I'm trying to limit my sugar intake otherwise I would've gladly used the sweet treat reward.

I just went for the first thing that popped in to my mind that is a primary reward -- something biology has conditioned me to want, and will activate reward pathways (quickly!) when ingested/experienced.

Honestly, you could probably just start with the secondary reward of congratulating yourself -- it's just important that you do it out loud and call yourself by name (eg, "John, you did a good job of running today"), so you hear it happening, instead of it being part of your mental dialog.

Generally though, I find that speaking to myself is psychologically different than talking to myself internally, so YMMV if that's not true for you.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#103

Post by rodneyfool » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 9:23 PM UTC

katzgrau wrote: post #7

Have a read, great book on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Habit-What-Life-Business/dp/081... Systematic, definitely. Scientific? Not really sure, but I find it extremely effective. If I could boil it down to "what works" for me, it'd be: - Pick a task or thing that you want to accomplish. Let's say running (mine is running/lifting). - Pick a "cue," or something that signals when you perform said task. The mo…

Adding another recommendation for this book. I'm about 200 pages in, and it's a great read. Great to apply to both personal and work life.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#104

Post by notimetorelax » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

simonw wrote: post #60

Get a dog. Our dog needs to go out first thing in the morning. It sounds silly, but she succeeded in injecting an element of schedule into my days that I hadn't had before. I feel like I've found it easier to develop other daily habits as a result.

I can second that. On one hand you have a little less of the free time, but on the other hand you learn to stick to a routine. Which is a useful skill for habit formation. And you can couple the walks with something else, like running or listening to audio books.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#105

Post by dwaltrip » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #50

kiba wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt this is scientifically verified, but this is probably the best thing we can do in the absence of research. Last time I check out research concerning producitivty, it's an unresearched black hole. That's not factoring in the reproducability crisis.

What I like in the absence of research is doing one's own measurements and then building what you learn into your own framework. Over time you can then make the framework more elegant and find the best leverage points. This is far better IMO than googling somebody else's list. It is personalized to you and is more fun that way, too.

I agree this method is more powerful in the long run.

It is difficult though. It requires serious patience, and very disciplined self-awareness and self-skepticism. It is incredibly easy to craft a false narrative for our experiences.

Keeping in mind that different approaches work for different people, I do think supplementing with ideas from others, especially those who possess similar self-awareness and skepticism, can be helpful.

I've become to believe strongly that relentless skepticism and questioning is one of the most powerful forces in humanity. So I try hard to apply it to myself -- while also giving myself a break now and then :)

Of course, the sciences are the clearest example of this. But I think it also applies to areas where rigorous measurements are hard to come by.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#106

Post by thothamon » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 10:00 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

Here's one that I think is the most important key. Pick a very small sub-piece of the habit you want to build, and EASY sub-piece. If you want to work out, then this might mean getting your workout clothes on. This is the minimum thing you do every day. If, after getting your workout clothes on, you decide you don't want to work out, then don't. You still get 100% credit for doing the task that day.

Even if you go two weeks and never get to the gym, you have at least built a habit of getting started with working out! You're much better off than if you had done nothing. Every day, at least you get started. And getting started is usually the hardest part. If you get started, most of the time you'll actually do the thing you had in mind!

It's critical to make the minimum requirement easy and then DO IT EVERY DAY. If it's hard and painful, you'll simply quit the whole thing after a while.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#107

Post by bootload » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 10:31 PM UTC

"I want to develop many daily habits, such as running, reading, or exercise every day"

Done that. Do the hardest thing first.

The simple hack I've found useful is to repeat the activity ^no matter^ how you feel. I found the biggest point of failure is ^just before^ you start and if you get over that hump of avoidance you'll succeed.

You have to repeat this every day. Every day you start is another point of failure. ~ http://seldomlogical.com/2009/OCT/29/do-the-hardest-thing-fi... (on 2770/3000km for this year, 10km at a time.)

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#108

Post by kaybe » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #86

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your list, but also strongly disagree with this point. Or rather, while I agree that you should try your hardest to keep your routine, I detest the part about making yourself feel bad. There are lots of reasons you might have to break a routine, it's not like every habit one might try to build is going to be the single most important thing in your life. And some people just don't respond well to…

It only makes a difference when you finally face real adversity. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I've had 8 companies, 6 of which have failed. Twice I've been literally reduced to the clothes on my back (actually the second time was even worse: 30 grand in debt, to the government). When shit goes REALLY bad, your ability to deal with the nastiness of reality is put to the test. I fought for a month and a half with a broke…

I worked in agriculture with a guy who broke his rib when he got hit by a car door. He didn't go to a doctor for two weks, and the problem was only diagnosed when he had to be rushed to the hospital dying - the rib had punctured his lung (he made it).

Please don't overdo it, everyone, and take care of yourselves.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#109

Post by semi-extrinsic » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #98

Couple of life-hacks to help you along: - Pay for things. I'm been paying $400/month for fitness classes and rest assured I never missed one. Haven't even been late. - Develop a single meta-habit: check your checklist. I have a morning checklist of things that I need to check off before I feel my morning is complete and my day is off to a good start. I don't forget my vitamins anymore. - Talk things through with some…

> Pay for things

Counterpoint: lots of people hold $50-$100/month gym memberships but never go to the gym. In fact, this is the most important part of the business model of most gyms.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#110

Post by dahart » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

This and other responses all have excellent advice. I'll just add a couple things that have worked for me.

- With exercise it's important to not overdo it. Start small, work up at a reasonable slow pace. You don't have to run 10 miles on day 1. Getting injured or sore or even just too tired makes it so much more likely you'll start skipping.

- Make doing the activity any given day more important that how much of it you do. It's okay to run a half mile instead of three, just make sure to run a little.

- When I was trying to lose weight & make a habit out of counting calories and stopping at my limit, I realized something that made it a thousand times easier. This might seem really stupid obvious, but it's about mental frame of mind. I realized that whatever hunger I thought I felt, I had been eating more than I needed. I was getting too much. If my calorie limit left me a little hungry, then that's how I was supposed to feel. When I focused on overcoming the hunger, it was a losing battle, it just made me think about the hunger and how I felt like I wanted to eat more. When I shifted to thinking about how I'd been eating too much, it was easy to adjust.

This helped me discover that building habits and goals are a very mental process that you can make easier by modifying your thinking. Figure out how to make your goals motivating, as opposed to brute-forcing your way over hurdles. When I learned to think the right way about certain things, they became so much easier. The harder you push against something you don't really want to do, the more energy it takes. If you can flip it into something you do want to do, it's effortless. Try reflecting on ways to make it mentally easier to make activities automatic, rather than thinking about how to battle and win new habits. Turn the goals mentally into givens- the things you're just going to do, and make the alternative the thing that's more difficult than not doing it.