Not sure. As a programmer, it's harder to evaluate if you use autocompletion, for example. Xah Lee has written about it: http://xahlee.info/comp/dvorak_keyboard_layout.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/dvorak_and_all_keyboard_layouts.html Tool to evaluate alternate layouts: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main Other layouts: https://normanlayout.info https://viralintrospection.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/a-diffe…
Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
11–20 of 22 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#12No. Colemak is better, from my experiences. I've used QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak. Of the three - Colemak is the most comfortable. I type at 140-155 WPM in all but Dvorak, in which I am out of practice. When I was actively using Dvorak I typed in the same range. The speed at which I type is not largely limited by any of the layouts, but the comfort of typing is. I found Colemak to be the most comfortable and Dvorak t…
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#13No. Colemak is better, from my experiences. I've used QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak. Of the three - Colemak is the most comfortable. I type at 140-155 WPM in all but Dvorak, in which I am out of practice. When I was actively using Dvorak I typed in the same range. The speed at which I type is not largely limited by any of the layouts, but the comfort of typing is. I found Colemak to be the most comfortable and Dvorak t…
I'd also agree that the comfort aspect is much more important than raw speed. I can type slightly faster on Colemak than I used to type on QWERTY, but after I switched, I feel far less fatigued by long typing sessions. As a developer, I figure I'll probably be doing a lot of typing on keyboards throughout my life, so I should do what I can to ease the negative impact on my wrists and fingers, etc.
If OP has already invested time learning Dvorak, maybe that's the way to go -- either one will be better for you than QWERTY. The hard part is setting aside time to learn and transitioning. At first I tried flip-flopping back and forth (what with having a job that required typing and all), but I ended up not getting better at Colemak and actually getting worse at QWERTY. After 2 weeks of dedicated practice and lots of typing games, I could slowly type in Colemak without making a huge amount of errors, and after about 6-8 weeks I'd say I was proficient and back at my normal typing speed. That murky time at the beginning when typing productivity drops can be tricky to manage, but it's definitely worth the effort in the long run.
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#14I switched due to RSI with the hope it would help - but the difference it made was neglible. Buying a better ergonomic keyboard is far more important than the key layout for coping with RSI. If you're having problems, look for a column staggered keyboard with thumb modifiers. Typing speed is not really any different from qwerty. Having all the vowels adjacent is sometimes a slowdown because you're utilizing one hand…
Which ergonomic keyboard(s) do you use?
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#15Yes, but not for the reasons normally given. I switched in college, basically by forcing myself to write all my papers and AIM chats in Dvorak. It was painstaking at first, hunt-and-peck, particularly since I didn't have an actual labeled keyboard (I'd made a printout of the Dvorak layout instead). Took me about 2 weeks to get up to about 30 WPM (I'd been a 90 WPM Qwerty touch-typist before). It was another 6 months…
1) A kinesis advantage
2) Colemak layout
3) No mouse (tablet)
Nobody can cheese me in the time it takes me to pee.
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#16Interestingly, A and M are the same spot in qwerty and Dvorak. There are typing tutors online, but I recommend printing out the layout or keeping it on screen and learning that way. Your hands will thank you.
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#17About a year ago I switched cold turkey to Dvorak. Aware of Qwerty's obvious design flaws and the improvements Dvorak had made, I had been toying with the idea of learning Dvorak for quite some time. That summer I found myself with a few weeks of nothing to do, so I learned Dvorak. My regimen was to do the exercises on http://learn.dvorak.nl everyday for as long as I could. Using a computer during that time was extraordinarily painful. I had to consciously think about the placement of every single keystroke, and simple things like googling "hockey scores" became a monumental task. I even started to avoid using a computer because typing was so difficult. If that sounds terrible, it was. However, with more practice things got better, and within a few weeks I could confidently type Dvorak at a reasonable speed.
A few months later, at school, two of my friends noticed I was using a different keyboard layout. I explained to them how I switched to Dvorak, and they decided to learn it too (which decision they made completely on their own; I hadn't even suggested they try it). Apparently their learning experiences were a lot more pleasant than mine, but it makes sense that it varies from person to person.
About a year later, I am a regular Dvorak user. However, would I recommend switching? No, not really. Dvorak is better than Qwerty, that much is obvious. But, did my typing speed increase? No, not really. I hadn't done any WPM measurements before I switched, but I'm roughly the same speed as before. Is Dvorak easier on your hands? Perhaps, but not by much in my opinion. If you do have hand pains, it is much easier and likely more effective to switch to a keyboard that is more ergonomic, rather than a layout. There are loads of these keyboards out there, such as TypeMatrix, ErgoDox, Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis, knock your self out. Switching to an ergonomic keyboard is something I absolutely do recommend (your pinkies will thank you).
Do I regret switching to Dvorak? No, I don't. I'm no worse off than before, and maybe even slightly better. However, is learning Dvorak worth it? For its ergonomic benefits, no, and my two friends that learned Dvorak share this opinion. If you want to learn Dvorak, by all means go ahead, but don't do so with the wrong expectations.
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#181) it was not supported on Linux/Unix back then 2) Switching to my wife's laptop (which had Qwerty) was uncomfortable 3) my wife couldn't use my laptop (which i had re-arranged the keys to match Dvorak) 4) remote desktop becomes a pain. If you connect to your computer from another computer/keyboard, your computer will expect you to type Dvorak, but your keyboard will be in Qwerty. 5) No proven reports that Qwerty causes CTS (until computers came along, everyone was using Qwerty) 6) some of the laptop-keyboards don't have all keys of the same size. Also the holders beneath might not be at the same alignment. So re-arranging the keys might be a problem. This is more of an issue, if you use rented laptops, like in my company. On the next laptop-upgrade, they will replace your laptop and you will have to deal with the "re-arrangement of keys" issue again.
As a side note, i can say that typing English in Dvorak was more comfortable and natural, than Qwerty. But for the above reasons, i finally gave up.
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#19The switch was largely a wake up call in how adaptable the human mind is. The learning process was slow and comical until I started having Dvorak reflexes on a Qwerty keyboard.
I finally also learned to type properly. I type faster in Dvorak than I used to type in Qwerty.
What's not to like from a clean slate?
Re: Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?
#20Yes, but not for the reasons normally given. I switched in college, basically by forcing myself to write all my papers and AIM chats in Dvorak. It was painstaking at first, hunt-and-peck, particularly since I didn't have an actual labeled keyboard (I'd made a printout of the Dvorak layout instead). Took me about 2 weeks to get up to about 30 WPM (I'd been a 90 WPM Qwerty touch-typist before). It was another 6 months…
4. I found my typing speed DID increase when moving to Dvorak, most likely for the fact that it enforced proper touch-typing discipline, since I _have_ to memorize the key locations now.