I'm confused. Are you an engineer or a programmer?
Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
11–20 of 44 posts
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#12I would say: neither.
Don't play it down, and don't make a thing of it. To do one makes it look like you're hiding something, to do the other could easily look dickish.
In my experience, no-one ever learned to code by studying (undergraduate) computer science. Some people learned to code while studying, but mostly the people who could already code perhaps became better grounded programmers by studying comp sci while those who couldn't still couldn't after they graduated. The best coders I knew in college either left for jobs before graduation or did the absolute minimum to graduate because they were already employed more than full time while still studying.
Also in my experience, most of the companies I would want to work at don't place much weight on an undergraduate CS degree. A degree may stop your CV from being ignored, but five years of professional experience and some basic interpersonal skills will count for more than a degree. There are some places where degrees are indispensable -- some companies have a thing about them (e.g. they may need to meet certain accreditation requirements). Sometimes you see jobs where applicants are expected to have graduate qualifications in CS (usually because they think they're doing something very hard core, and the graduate degree is seen as a pons asinorum) but you seldom see undergraduate degrees being required.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#13It'll depend on who's on the other side of the hiring table. I'm largely self-taught, but I have a CS degree from a good school. (It's a long story...the CS degree came after the self-teaching, for the most part.) If I were the hiring manager, someone who's self-taught would be a mild bonus: it shows initiative and passion. Other people think differently - some won't hire any without a degree, some would rather not h…
Ultimately, as in all professions, you want to be supported by your manager. Building that trust is what earns you promotions, helps proliferate your work, and contributes to your career goals. So I completely agree with your comment, and would go further to say that if the OP makes it a point of stating they are self-taught, they will self select. They may have to churn through more interviews to make up for the bias, but in the long run it will be more worthwhile.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#14I would suggest not focusing on it either way. Just focus on the projects you have built, the technology you used, and your skills in delivering.
Thats what I've been doing. My resume lists the dozens of projects I've completed. Out of every 50 resume's I send out, I get maybe one interview. I don't think anyone even looks at my github. As soon as they see I don't have a degree, they throw my resume out.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#15I'm confused. Are you an engineer or a programmer?
Are you really confused? Seems more likely you're being needlessly snarky. Dude's clearly a programmer by trade who chooses to refer to himself as an "engineer", as is extremely common.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#16I would suggest not focusing on it either way. Just focus on the projects you have built, the technology you used, and your skills in delivering.
Thats what I've been doing. My resume lists the dozens of projects I've completed. Out of every 50 resume's I send out, I get maybe one interview. I don't think anyone even looks at my github. As soon as they see I don't have a degree, they throw my resume out.
How much professional experience do you have?
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#17As others have said, position yourself in terms of skills and accomplishments. If you have other attributes, such as some significant hobby, people skills, have managed large projects, or other people, include that too.
Let them know who you are and tell them what they can expect to get when they hire you.
That is what they want to know. How you got there, whether it's the school of hard knocks --a fine school mind you, or through University, or apprenticeship, or all of the above isn't anywhere near as important as making sure they very clearly understand who you are and what they will get.
And on your end, make double damn sure you can add value appropriate for the position you seek. Do the work to remove doubt, and it will show and when they see it, your opportunity is that much improved. The bonus is when you walk in the door, you are ready to get after it, not worried about things that should have been sorted before you got there.
It's a two way street, and I've often thought a simple "has degree = 1" type filter to be sort of a crutch. Both the prospect and the employer need to reach a place of confidence so that it works.
An approach to this, business minded and technology minded, is a little harder, because you do raise the bar some, but it's self selecting in a good way. I've made a couple of pretty big jumps doing this and it was all good. There is getting the work done, and that's hard and that's what you get paid for. Not having the doubts there helps immensely.
It's not that you want to be a dick. You just want to feel really good about the whole thing, and they want to feel good too, so make sure that happens and that it's true and you can't lose.
Everybody, you included, need to do that, because it's just a pig expensive when it doesn't, and everybody gets hurt a little, sometimes a lot.
If they question any of it, tell 'em that too. Make sure they know these things matter and you take it seriously.
Good luck!
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#18This is far from the most interesting thing you could say about yourself. What in the last 5 years suggests you'll make your next employer a lot of money? Focus on that, instead.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#19I'm confused. Are you an engineer or a programmer?
Are you really confused? Seems more likely you're being needlessly snarky. Dude's clearly a programmer by trade who chooses to refer to himself as an "engineer", as is extremely common.
There's a legal distinction in some countries. Guy might be from one of those countries.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#20I would suggest not focusing on it either way. Just focus on the projects you have built, the technology you used, and your skills in delivering.
Thats what I've been doing. My resume lists the dozens of projects I've completed. Out of every 50 resume's I send out, I get maybe one interview. I don't think anyone even looks at my github. As soon as they see I don't have a degree, they throw my resume out.
You should not primarily be attempting to get interviews by sending in 50+ resumes. Instead, try to get 5 coffee dates with people with the authority to hire engineers.
Resumes are an institution created to allow people to throw out resumes.