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Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

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Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#11

Post by patio11 »

They almost certainly won't fire you for asking for a raise. Like you said yourself, your replacement would certainly be more expensive, and they'll lose at least 3 months of productivity even if the replacement is adequate.

I'd start looking for other jobs and, in parallel, tell the boss that you value the lack of the commute quite highly and that if they want you to commute you'll be happy to consider their offer for what is essentially a new job. If they suggest "Your current salary" you say "Hah, good one. No seriously, what is your offer, knowing how valuable of an employee I am and how difficult I would be to replace?"

More generally: most engineers who feel they are getting screwed are indeed getting screwed. (And many engineers who feel adequately compensated are in fact getting screwed but have psychological issues and asymmetric information which makes this less than obvious.) People will NOT fix this for you. You have to take responsibility for your own career.

P.S. Ducking meetings with you is a negotiating tactic! And it is working! You have to summon a modicum of intestinal fortitude and say "Boss, the fact of the upcoming move means my salary is going to get renegotiated. You get to pick whether that renegotiation happens in your office or not."

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#12

Post by kjksf »

Don't ever think of this as "what is fair".

This is a negotiation between you and employer and it comes down to supply & demand, market value and who has the upper hand.

If you don't have another job lined up at same (or higher) salary, then the company has the upper hand and you're too afraid to even ask for a raise because you worry that you'll get fired.

As others said, you need to at least try to get another job. You can always apply and not accept the offer but only by applying and going through the process to the point of getting an offer you'll be able to answer the following questions:

1. how hard is it for you to get another job ?

2. if you do get an offer, is it better or worse than the current job ?

If you do get a better offer then you can use it as a leverage to get a better salary at your current company ("Hi boss. I really like working here but I'm paid below my market rate. I have an opportunity to take another job paying $X but I would rather stay here if you can match that salary. Your move.").

But when you do that, you have to be willing to take the other job if your company says no. You can always wipe your tears with the additional dollar bills.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#13

Post by krapp »

minusthebrandon wrote: post #6
Seb86 wrote: post #5

Talk to a lawyer and get them to talk to your boss about the remote work situation and the initial contract.

It was just an oral agreement. Nothing on paper.

In other words, it was a fiction entertained by two people, one of whom no longer works there.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#14

Post by patio11 »

minusthebrandon wrote: post #10
geerlingguy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your current employer isn't entertaining the idea of a raise (especially a substantial raise), you should wonder how much they really value you as an employee (the answer: probably not too much). You should always have your eyes open for a better opportunity, especially if you don't feel all that happy with your current situation (that's one small luxury we currently have in the software development industry—take…

This is how I'm starting to feel. I love the team. Part of me thinks I'm blowing this out of proportion and ascribing nefarious motives to the higher-ups when they don't actually have any... but I also think I'm telling myself that so I don't have to face reality.

There's nothing particularly nefarious to "We have him at $X and have not been presented with any rational reason to offer $X + $Y." ("I deserve more" is not a rational reason. "You cannot purchase my services for $X and you want those services" is a rational reason.)

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#15

Post by nikanj »

minusthebrandon wrote: post #9
chadkruse wrote: post #8

Using the lens of 'what makes the most sense in the long term', could you really handle commuting 54 miles? Personally I couldn't handle that commute for any price.

I tell myself I could, but it's rough. A good 3+ hours in the car every day.

That's two good hobbies and sixpack abs right there, if you spend that time on self improvement instead of sitting in a car. Commutes over on hour per day are a huge sacrifice from your most precious resource: unallocated time

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#16

Post by eli »

Seb86 wrote: post #5

Talk to a lawyer and get them to talk to your boss about the remote work situation and the initial contract.

Assuming the OP is an at-will employee (which is what it sounds like), I don't think the initial agreement matters. The cool thing about being at-will is you can quit whenever you want. Nobody can force you to stay there. The bad thing is they can fire you whenever they want for (almost) any reason.

That said, if you want to know your legal options, you absolutely should talk to a lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#17

Post by davideschiera »

Depending on the kind of job, remote working is a perfect way to get the job done. If you feel this can be your case, then maybe your boss is not acting very smart.

In terms of job alternatives, if you feel that you would need to commute anyway, look around, I bet there are several open positions for which you would be able to work remotely (in some cases you might trade something like 1 day a week at the office).

At the end, give your boss another chance to understand your situation, go talk with him. It will be the ultimate way to know if that's the place you still want to work at or not.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#18

Post by sauronlord »

You should have left 3+ months ago. Your not valued there.

No one gets a raise out of niceness. You get a raise because they're Damn afraid you are going to leave.

If they don't push to promote you, then get out and promote yourself.

If they promote you, still get out and promote yourself harder.

Mind your own business.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#19

Post by gkoberger »

patio11 wrote: post #11

They almost certainly won't fire you for asking for a raise. Like you said yourself, your replacement would certainly be more expensive, and they'll lose at least 3 months of productivity even if the replacement is adequate. I'd start looking for other jobs and, in parallel, tell the boss that you value the lack of the commute quite highly and that if they want you to commute you'll be happy to consider their offer f…

Patrick (the commenter I'm replying to) happens to have written the best article you'll ever read on the topic:

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

It really helps put things into perspective.

Re: Ask HN: What should I do in this situation?

#20

Post by dmourati »

"wants everyone in the office more, including me"

Well, one day a year is more than none. You could make the trip once and talk face to face.

In that meeting, you could reveal what you've learned about your salary relative to new hires, ask for a raise, and schedule another trip for 6 months down the line.

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