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Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

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Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well considering that the PC was available until the 80's, you'll find few guys in their 50-60's writing code in Ruby or PHP... most of those guys are Fortran an Assembler cats. There are plenty of jobs still available working in host controllers and hardware systems. Being a "Programmer/Developer" as a career wasn't really available until the early 90's. I wrote in about 5 different languages back then, including Da…

Good point, but I'm seeing this phenomena in ALL jobs at these companies - and both have been around for over 30 years. There just aren't alot of older people around - where did they GO?

That's a good question... but where are all the 50-60 year old firemen? Electrical engineering paid pretty good back in the day... so I can assume that if they managed their money wisely, they are sitting on a boat on some lake in Wisconsin.

I'm working on a hardware project right now and the guy that's doing the board design is 57 and retired. I can only call him between tuesday and thursday and he has an aol.com email address, but he knows what he's doing... so who knows...

Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#13

Well, where do you plan to go at that age?

I assume I'll still be working, but when I look around and see how few people at these large, established companies are in their 50s/60s, I get a little nervous to be honest...

Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#14
post #9

I assume that you are talking about 50+ demographics, I can share one anecdote. My father-in-law is in his early 60s and he was recently laid off from his job. He was working with RPG /AS400 stuff. He was never in management path and always been individual contributor (even though he started when he was 40 being an immigrant in the US starting from scratch). He strongly believes that they laid him off due to his age.…

Thanks for this story - always great to hear about a real experience. This is very disturbing. What the heck does "fresh face" mean? Did he have any idea what they meant, or were they just looking to cut costs and hire a more junior guy?

Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#15
Hi there I am 45 years old. Been out of work since 2002.

In my prime I earned $150K/year as a programmer analyst writing business software for mostly Microsoft Windows platforms. That was before the Dotcom bubble burst and the market got flooded with younger cheaper labor developers who only studied in hacker school for three months how to become a developer with no college degree and high school dropouts. They work for like $20K/year and write sloppy code with security flaws and poor quality.

I've been programming since I was 12 in 1980 learning BASIC on 8 bit microcomputers, and learning COBOL and FORTRAN on mainframes using punch cards. At first I made mistakes and failed like any other person learning how to be a programmer. I learned from my mistakes and kept getting better. Over my life I learned over 37 different programming languages on countless different platforms. But none of that matters anymore.

Many people I worked with at my age, most of them did suicide because of the stress of working or not being able to find a steady job. Those who stayed in the computer industry became software consultants and got ripped off by broker agencies and in most cases not paid for their work or even being given credit for it, some ended up homeless, others ended up disabled from the stress like me.

This industry can eat you up and spit you out.

I was able to earn money as a 'super debugger', a phrase made by Rear Admiral Grace Hopper when I heard once of her speeches on programming and debugging and how using less code is faster and better, etc. She used to carry some copper wire on her wrist as a bracelet, when they decommissioned some mainframe core memory it was wire wrapped. She would show it to young people like me to teach me that wasting code is wasting memory and resources, and that if you can do the same thing with less code, it runs faster, uses less resources, and less memory.

But nobody seems to want to take her seriously anymore, even if she is a pioneer into computer science, and had invented a lot of the tech we still use today. In her time they claimed it was not possible to have a programming language, they also claimed women could not do computer work, and she proved them wrong on both counts.

Anyway some of my friends who survived, ended up working in fast food and retail and clerk jobs, because nobody wants to hire a person over 30 these days for programming work, and even if they do it is software contracting and they get ripped off.

One of my friends Michael David Crawford who was a Senior Engineer at Apple and Drobo and other places wrote this in his email response:

Dear Friends,

I was until quite recently out of work for three solid years despite my having for well over fifteen solid years received ~35 software engineering employment or consulting inquiries from recruiters - also known as "headhunters" as well as "brokers" - ...

... While at the same time I found it Damn near impossible even to _find_ the kinds of software publishers I hoped to work for, let alone any actual open job opportunites, due the quite common lack of street or postal addresses on corporate websites.

I rsolved to take matters into my own hands by once and for all putting a permanent end not only to my own chronic unemployment but that of a half-million of my colleagues in the engineering professions.

I recently read at Soylentnews (http://soylentnews.org/) that there is expected to be by 2020 a shortage of one million software engineers in the United States alone.

I remain dumbfounded, given that there is presently a _surplus_ of 500,000 software engineers as well as that chronic unemployment - the kind that creates large, unexplainable gaps in one's resume, therefore rendering one largely unemployable - is quite steadily growing worse over time.

                     It Does Not Have To Be This Way.
Behold:

  Local Jobs, Local Candidates:
  The Global Computer Employer Index
  http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/
Note that my _entire_ site consists of naught but static hand-coded Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict as well as Valid CSS2. There has never been any software of _any_ sort behind any of the many commercial websites I've operated since 1994, nor - quite likely - will there _ever_ be.

My Global Computer Employer Index is built _entirely_ by hand, through careful, diligent and patient online research, as well as offline literature research in public and University libraries.

I learned all about how to do that when I majored at first in Optical Astronomy then later Physics at Caltech - the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, as well as at the University of California Santa Cruz, where I obtained my B.A. in Physics in 1993.

You could really help a vast quantity of hungry, hurting people out were you to lay this mail into the hands of _anyone_ you genuinely feel would benefit from or would be interested in it.

I Am Eternally In Your Debt,

Michael David Crawford P.E., Process Architect Solving the Software Problem http://www.warplife.com/jonathan-swift/books/software-proble... mdcrawford@gmail.com

Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#18
post #9

I assume that you are talking about 50+ demographics, I can share one anecdote. My father-in-law is in his early 60s and he was recently laid off from his job. He was working with RPG /AS400 stuff. He was never in management path and always been individual contributor (even though he started when he was 40 being an immigrant in the US starting from scratch). He strongly believes that they laid him off due to his age.…

This is exactly what my father went through too, he worked at IBM and then AT&T till he was 60+.

He's over it and is enjoying his retirement playing sudoku everyday.

Re: Ask HN: Where do older workers go that don't become managers or specialists?

#20

Well, where do you plan to go at that age?

I assume I'll still be working, but when I look around and see how few people at these large, established companies are in their 50s/60s, I get a little nervous to be honest...

Yeah me too.
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