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Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

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11–20 of 42 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#11
If you don't understand code, you're asking for a whole heap of trouble.

Why? You can't validate the LLM outputs properly, and commit bugs and maybe even blatantly non-functional code.

My company is pressuring juniors to use LLM when coding, and I'm finding none of them fully understand the LLM outputs because they don't have enough engineering experience to find code smells, bugs, regressions, and antipatterns.

In particular, none of them have developed strong unit testing skills, and they let the LLM mock everything because they don't know any better, when they should generally only mock API dependencies. Sometimes LLM will even mock integration tests, which to me isn't generally a super good idea.

So the tests that are supposed to validate the code are completely worthless.

It has led to multiple customer impacting issues, and we spend more time mopping the slop than we do engineering as tenured engineers.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#12
When I first started coding, I knew how my code worked down to assembly language because that was the only way I could get anything to run at a sufficient speed on a 1Mhz computer, I then graduated to C and C++ with some VB and then C#, JavaScript and Python

Back in 2000 I knew every server and network switch in our office and eventually our self hosted server room with a SAN and a whopping 3TB of RAM before I left. Now I just submit a yaml file to AWS

Code is becoming no different, I treat Claude/Codex as junior developers, I specify my architecture carefully, verify it after it’s written and I test the code that AI writes for functionality and scalability to the requirements. But I haven’t looked at the actually code for the project I’m working on.

I’ve had code that I did write a year ago that I forgot what I did and just asked Codex questions about it.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#13
``` - code I don’t need to model in my head (low risk, follows established conventions, predictable, easy to verify), and

- code I can’t help modelling in my head (business-critical, novel, experimental, or introduces new patterns). I feel like there’s actually one or two more shades in between. ```

Sometimes I think something belongs in the second category, but then it turns out it’s really more like the first. And sometimes something is second-category, but for the sake of getting things done, it makes more sense to treat it like the first.

If vibe coding keeps evolving, this is probably the path it needs to explore. I just wonder what we’ll end up discovering along the way.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#14
Don’t buy into self promotion bullshit. AI can be helpful. It’s another form of automation. It is not creative and will not make you a better programmer. The only thing that will make you a better programmer is time spent programming, just like with anything else.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#15

When I first started coding, I knew how my code worked down to assembly language because that was the only way I could get anything to run at a sufficient speed on a 1Mhz computer, I then graduated to C and C++ with some VB and then C#, JavaScript and Python Back in 2000 I knew every server and network switch in our office and eventually our self hosted server room with a SAN and a whopping 3TB of RAM before I left.…

How do you verify the code without actually looking at it?

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#16
post #13

``` - code I don’t need to model in my head (low risk, follows established conventions, predictable, easy to verify), and - code I can’t help modelling in my head (business-critical, novel, experimental, or introduces new patterns). I feel like there’s actually one or two more shades in between. ``` Sometimes I think something belongs in the second category, but then it turns out it’s really more like the first. And…

If it’s in the second category, I struggle not to mentally model it. How do you stop yourself? And should you?

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#17

When I first started coding, I knew how my code worked down to assembly language because that was the only way I could get anything to run at a sufficient speed on a 1Mhz computer, I then graduated to C and C++ with some VB and then C#, JavaScript and Python Back in 2000 I knew every server and network switch in our office and eventually our self hosted server room with a SAN and a whopping 3TB of RAM before I left.…

How do you verify the code without actually looking at it?

How do you verify the compiler without looking at the assembled code? How do you verify code that links against binary libraries?

You run it and check for your desired behavior.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you verify the code without actually looking at it?

How do you verify the compiler without looking at the assembled code? How do you verify code that links against binary libraries? You run it and check for your desired behavior.

(Those are hardly analogous comparisons to LLM generated code, are they?)

So you do a vibe check?

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you verify the compiler without looking at the assembled code? How do you verify code that links against binary libraries? You run it and check for your desired behavior.

(Those are hardly analogous comparisons to LLM generated code, are they?) So you do a vibe check?

What’s “vibe checking”?

I input x and I expect y behavior and check for corner cases - just like I have checked for correctness for 40 years. Why do I care how the code was generated as long as it has the correct behavior?

Of course multithreaded code is the exception unless the LLM is putting a bunch of rnd() calls in the code to make it behave differently.

Re: Ask HN: Is understanding code becoming "optional"?

#20

When I first started coding, I knew how my code worked down to assembly language because that was the only way I could get anything to run at a sufficient speed on a 1Mhz computer, I then graduated to C and C++ with some VB and then C#, JavaScript and Python Back in 2000 I knew every server and network switch in our office and eventually our self hosted server room with a SAN and a whopping 3TB of RAM before I left.…

How do you verify the code without actually looking at it?

Although I write very little code myself anymore, I don't trust AI code at all. My default assumption: every line is the most mid possible implementation, every important architecture constraint violated wantonly. Your typical junior programmer.

So I run specialized compliance agents regularly. I watch the AI code and interrupt frequently to put it back on track. I occasionally write snippets as few-shot examples. Verification without reading every line, but not "vibe checking" either.

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