The federal circuit COA has never met a patent they don't like. That's all that matters. Statute text is irrelevant. The federal circuit openly ignores SCOTUS precedent about patents (e.g. Alice).
Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
11–19 of 19 posts
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#12[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#13You cannot patent a prompt. Anyone who attempts to do so will either need to be secretive and bribey to pull it off and will then also have to hope that no one ever finds out because if they did, then in any legal proceedings that come due to said patent, (which is the entire point of a patent), the outcome will be that their patent is invalidated by the court and the case thrown out. The point of a patent is to make…
> Anyone who attempts to do so will either need to be secretive and bribey to pull it off and will then also have to hope that no one ever finds out because if they did, then in any legal proceedings that come due
What do you mean by this? What aspects of their conduct would someone need to be secretive about?
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#14You cannot patent a prompt. Anyone who attempts to do so will either need to be secretive and bribey to pull it off and will then also have to hope that no one ever finds out because if they did, then in any legal proceedings that come due to said patent, (which is the entire point of a patent), the outcome will be that their patent is invalidated by the court and the case thrown out. The point of a patent is to make…
> Anyone who attempts to do so will either need to be secretive and bribey to pull it off and will then also have to hope that no one ever finds out because if they did, then in any legal proceedings that come due What do you mean by this? What aspects of their conduct would someone need to be secretive about?
A patent can be challenged in court. Newegg has had a couple of loud victories over this, and in some cases have challenged the validity of the patent, basically asking the court to review whether the original patent that is at the crux of the case should have been issued in the first place.
If the patent, on review in court, fails the originality, novelty, or lack of prior art review, the patent can be dissolved.
https://www.retaildive.com/news/newegg-the-bane-of-patent-tr...
https://www.newegg.com/insider/newegg-vs-patent-trolls-when-...
A patent filed on a prompt would most likely fail the novelty/prior art review phase of the patent application, so the only way a patent could succeed being granted in the first place would be through extreme secrecy and probably bribery of a patent agent to push the patent through.
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anyone who attempts to do so will either need to be secretive and bribey to pull it off and will then also have to hope that no one ever finds out because if they did, then in any legal proceedings that come due What do you mean by this? What aspects of their conduct would someone need to be secretive about?
A patent can be challenged in court. Newegg has had a couple of loud victories over this, and in some cases have challenged the validity of the patent, basically asking the court to review whether the original patent that is at the crux of the case should have been issued in the first place. If the patent, on review in court, fails the originality, novelty, or lack of prior art review, the patent can be dissolved. ht…
All patents issued by the USPTO are public though. For you to get a utility patent you need to publicly share exactly what is done. This is supposed to be the reason patents exist in the first place. And in return for publicly sharing, you get exclusive rights for some period of time. In that regard there really isn’t any secrecy
Just because you have the patent does not mean you will win all infringement claims though, as you noted with those Newegg cases
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
A patent can be challenged in court. Newegg has had a couple of loud victories over this, and in some cases have challenged the validity of the patent, basically asking the court to review whether the original patent that is at the crux of the case should have been issued in the first place. If the patent, on review in court, fails the originality, novelty, or lack of prior art review, the patent can be dissolved. ht…
All patents issued by the USPTO are public though. For you to get a utility patent you need to publicly share exactly what is done. This is supposed to be the reason patents exist in the first place. And in return for publicly sharing, you get exclusive rights for some period of time. In that regard there really isn’t any secrecy Just because you have the patent does not mean you will win all infringement claims thou…
I agree. Patents are only useful in a court of law, and as a deterrent to prevent deep pocketed outsiders from stealing your idea (out of fear that they would lose any infringement lawsuits and therefore a lot of money).
If your patent is crap, like the one that could feasibly be put on a prompt, then there is only the thinnest veneer of protection for your prompt idea, so it's pointless to make one if there is any value more than the 10-30 lawyer hours needed to take it to court and destroy it.
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#17Hmmm, I think of prompts more like recipes than an algorithm. Similar in both regards, but to the layman, I think prompts are becoming as common practice in daily lives as recipes. Recipes can be trade secrets but not IP.(Unless it's a super rare circumstance that proves uniqueness in a 'Food Science' way). I surely hope no one can patent a prompt. That would be an annoying world to live in.
Recipes can be somehow a brand: the name "Original Sacher Torte" is protected and can only be used by Hotel Sacher, but the recipe itself isn't
But that's trademark rather than patent, isn't it? The rules are quite different for trademark.
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#18Hmmm, I think of prompts more like recipes than an algorithm. Similar in both regards, but to the layman, I think prompts are becoming as common practice in daily lives as recipes. Recipes can be trade secrets but not IP.(Unless it's a super rare circumstance that proves uniqueness in a 'Food Science' way). I surely hope no one can patent a prompt. That would be an annoying world to live in.
AFAIK and IANAL.
Algorithms are considered mathematics and not patentable in themselves. So even if prompts are seen as algorithms, they would not be patentable. Prompts would have the usual copyright protections.
I presume though that some specific prompts may satisfy the criteria for patentability.
Re: Ask HN: Can you patent prompts?
#19Excellent question - but I'm not a lawyer! I want to add my question: How can something be a patent, if the result of the prompts are not always the same on each run? My understanding is: Only things can go into patents, which are "reproduceable"? Maybe Im wrong?
The process is reproducible even if the outcome isn't always identical. Outside of computing and mathematics, real world processes never result in the exact same output - small variations in size, density, concentration, etc. will occur.