If you're on an employment based visa and in a country where you're unfamiliar with labor law, I think you need to consult with an attorney who has experience with both of these specialized areas in the country you're in. If your company has provided an immigration attorney for you already, they shouldn't be the one you use to pursue employment claims.
Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
11–19 of 19 posts
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#12It looks like the company is dying and wants to cut expenses. Your manager is trying to find something on you to push you out, and to make you doubt yourself so you'd jump ship, because that's what he's been told to do. Even if you manage to drag this out and stay, you will simply see how the ship sinks.
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#131) You've already been fired. This is just checking the [legal] boxes. You likely got fired due to no personal fault, and rather mismanagement on their part (e.g. over-hiring, flip-flopping projects, etc.). 2) Start working on your next steps after hours. Feeling like this is a temp situation will help. 3) 100% yes, they're trying to pressure you into leaving. Try to get the best terms you can. 4) Doesn't sound very…
Excellent, professional, and very valuable response :)
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#141) You've already been fired. This is just checking the [legal] boxes. You likely got fired due to no personal fault, and rather mismanagement on their part (e.g. over-hiring, flip-flopping projects, etc.). 2) Start working on your next steps after hours. Feeling like this is a temp situation will help. 3) 100% yes, they're trying to pressure you into leaving. Try to get the best terms you can. 4) Doesn't sound very…
I agree with this post. I think you've already been terminated, and I don't think it was your fault.
I would stress #3: If you cannot financially afford to just tender your resignation and move on, take the high road and handle this as amicably as you can. Make a concerted effort to show progress in the PIP, discuss your progress in your 1 on 1s, and be as polite as you can. It sucks, it's tempting to lash out, but it is not worth it.
But immediately begin running a process to find a new position, hopefully with more skilled and competent people.
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#15When my manager wanted to put me on a pip, an experienced HR friend recommended me to speak to an employment lawyer asap. They would help for a relatively small fee, and a percentage if they win. In many countries PIPs are subjective, and courts nudge to protecting employees. A lawyer can help you prepare to document and catch errors. It doesn't solve your problems but at least you have the chance to get a premium fo…
Protip: getting legal insurance for employment shenanigans is like $30 a month in the Netherlands. If you need it once in your life it'll have paid for itself.
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#16Probably it's all BS as others and yeah they're trying to manage you out and get a lawyer and all that stuff.
I would say, re the "emotional drain" and "being disrespected", learn to just get over yourself and your ego and suck it up during this challenging period, it's something you can learn from and take with you. For now, nothing has changed, they're still paying you, so you should still punch in / punch out, put in a reasonable / good faith effort while you are on their payroll.
You don't have to be a star performer, you can be talking to lawyers and looking for other jobs on the side, but if you can keep it together for the time being there's a better chance you'd get let go with a better settlement, they won't be able to come up with a "for cause" rationale, and frankly its just good manners / professional while you are on their payroll and a guest at their company.
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#17I'm on a PIP in the US... or was. I'm not sure. I was told I failed the PIP and was placed on paid administrative leave while they perform a fair treatment investigation I requested prior to the end of the PIP. Mine is also generic for "problem solving skills". My output is similar to my peers and I have additional responsibilities. They're firing me and promoting my peer. I also have multiple examples of them violating ADA protections. I'm friends with some managers and retired managers and they all agree that I'm getting screwed and to get a lawyer. My current manager was dumb enough to put some of the violations in writing and also told me I was being targeted. Sounds like you are also being targeted for generic stuff.
Good luck!
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#18[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Help me navigate a PIP at a remote startup in the Netherlands
#191) You've already been fired. This is just checking the [legal] boxes. You likely got fired due to no personal fault, and rather mismanagement on their part (e.g. over-hiring, flip-flopping projects, etc.). 2) Start working on your next steps after hours. Feeling like this is a temp situation will help. 3) 100% yes, they're trying to pressure you into leaving. Try to get the best terms you can. 4) Doesn't sound very…
Excellent, professional, and very valuable response :)
I have been in almost exactly same situation with a big tech. It's true that your fate has already been decided and no point fighting an org that doesn't want you, read memo and accept and leave.
And do not waste time to show improvement on PIP, no one's expecting, rather use the time to secure the next job. If it's difficult to find the next job, just do the minimal to share something on the 1on1s.
Be nice to everyone, it's not personal, rather they will appreciate you if you handle this in matured fashion.
You will do well.